Teddy Atlas's 13 Greatest P4P Fighters Of All Time!

[joseph5620]

it seems that your argueing that he didnt exhibit total domination

while the other guy is arguing that lucas wasnt a non threat....and for some reason he seems to feel if he can disprove that lucas was a non threat....then hes some how successfully disproved everything you said.
i believe its called a straw man argument.

That's not what I said. In fact I highlighted what I was referring to which should have made it pretty simple to understand. But I don't expect posters like you, who claim that George Foreman couldn't punch hard, to demonstrate any type of reading comprehension.

[Rockin']

Roy Jones was da man..................Rockin'

[joseph5620]

So this guy is debating a minor point in my post, arguing that this minor point is faulty and because it is allegedly faulty the entire post is faulty? Lol.

Yet you'll tell anybody that listens how fighters like Mikkel Kessler, Bute or Ottke are great which was my point. A point that you clearly dodge. You criticize Jones for fighting Lucas but praise Kessler for doing it 10 years later. And who has Bute ever beaten that impresses you so much? Curious since you're into breaking down Jones opponents.

You can think whatever you want about Jones. But don't pretend you're being objective or intelligent when you're breaking it down. James Toney was the best Supermiddlweight that Jones could have fought. Jones dominated Toney which is a lot more impressive than beating Littles or the other ridiculous names you listed.

[BattlingNelson]

Yet you'll tell anybody that listens how fighters like Mikkel Kessler, Bute or Ottke are great which was my point. A point that you clearly dodge. You criticize Jones for fighting Lucas but praise Kessler for doing it 10 years later. And who has Bute ever beaten that impresses you so much? Curious since you're into breaking down Jones opponents.

You can think whatever you want about Jones. But don't pretend you're being objective or intelligent when you're breaking it down. James Toney was the best Supermiddlweight that Jones could have fought. Jones dominated Toney which is a lot more impressive than beating Littles or the other ridiculous names you listed.

I never argued that Kessler, Bute or Ottke are in the top 13 so I guess you are mistaking me for someone else.

And Toney is a great win. I never said anything else. Arguably it's the best win Jones have. What my point is, which you so far has failed to understand, is that there was a ton of challengers out there worthy of a shot at Jones. Challengers which would make Jones resume look much better had he fought them instead of Lucas, Paz etc.

[Spartacus Sully]

That's not what I said. In fact I highlighted what I was referring to which should have made it pretty simple to understand. But I don't expect posters like you, who claim that George Foreman couldn't punch hard, to demonstrate any type of reading comprehension.

soooo you agree that roy jones jr did not have unpresidented dominance and should not be in a top 13 p4p list? regardless of how any one feels about lucas.

and foreman pushed hard......but couldnt punch for **** after he fought chuvalo.....giving away speed and distance for raw power....he smothered opponents into tko's he did not ko them.

[Vadrigar.]

and foreman pushed hard......but couldnt punch for **** after he fought chuvalo.....giving away speed and distance for raw power....he smothered opponents into tko's he did not ko them.

That's silly, Foreman was one of if not the hardest heavyweight puncher. It's ridiculous to call Foreman's punches "pushes". You can clearly see him punching his opponents. Well maybe Foreman pushed hard to keep Frazier of him, quite different to a punch don't you think?

George Chuvalo had one of the best chins, which is why Foreman couldn't KO him. Look at what he did to elite fighters like Frazier And Norton.

[MRBOOMER]

No luv for Roy Jones Jr?

Making a list like this is definitely hard and very subjective though.

He won't ever be great as he was most he didnt fight everyone everyday like most of these guys did and showed his ruggedness that and most of the time one of these is made it's all old school fighters from the hey day of boxing Now if he could make a current one maybe he's on there.

[Spartacus Sully]

That's silly, Foreman was one of if not the hardest heavyweight puncher. It's ridiculous to call Foreman's punches "pushes". You can clearly see him punching his opponents.

George Chuvalo had one of the best chins, which is why Foreman couldn't KO him. Look at what he did to elite fighters like Frazier And Norton.

yeah he just pushed them around. the only way he could ko some one was by pushing them to the left with his slow no distance punches and then pushing them to the right with one of his slow no distance punches as thy were moving to the left.....giving him kind of a counter effect with the force of both weights combining at impact..like with lyle.....or just continually knocing them off balance by punching with their head movement or the same counter like effect by punching against their head movement....like with fraizer.

vrs chuvalo he was using distance he was using timing and speed he had a great jab and he was messing chuvalo up....if not for his chin chuvalo probly would have been ko'ed and not just tko'ed.

[Scott9945]

soooo you agree that roy jones jr did not have unpresidented dominance and should not be in a top 13 p4p list? regardless of how any one feels about lucas.

and foreman pushed hard......but couldnt punch for **** after he fought chuvalo.....giving away speed and distance for raw power....he smothered opponents into tko's he did not ko them.

Yeah, try telling that to Frazier, Norton, or Cooney. They weren't what you can call "smothered". They were hammered by the most powerful man in boxing history.

[Spartacus Sully]

Yeah, try telling that to Frazier, Norton, or Cooney. They weren't what you can call "smothered". They were hammered by the most powerful man in boxing history.

if they were hammered why were they standing and still willing to go when they were counted as a tko?

i havnt watched much of an old foreman, so i dont know against cooney.....he did have skills that he used at one point in time perhaps on his comeback he reverted back to them instead of relying on brute force. Ill have to check out the cooney fight when i get home.