Who is the better Klitschko brother?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Not all traits are of equal import. Having a weak chin is about as big a negative as you can get in boxing. And yes, conversly having a good chin and stamina will come a lot closer than making up for crude technique than technique making up for a lack of chin and stamina. Ask Marciano.

Poet

I understand not all traits are of equal value, but I don't agree that a weak chin will put you in more danger of failing to achieve greatness than lacklustre technique or mediocre skills --- there is a counter-fighter in history for every Rocky Marciano. I could start with Terry Norris.

[NChristo]

Who you beat, and who you lose to counts. If you can't grasp that concept then quite frankly I don't see the point in the discussion.

Cool, so 1 good win and a dozen poor losses over a very good career and 3 poor losses ?.
Remind me again please, who were Pat McMurtry, Eduardo Corletti, Bob Cleroux, Pete Rademacher (did nothing at all in the pros), Howard King and Bob Baker ?. (Your willing to include a Purrity's win over a green Wlad so I'll include them over a green Chuvalo).

I'm not one too nit pick at losses in a career like this but go for it, tell me what is so good about all these boxers that puts them above / equal too Sanders and Brewster. I'm trying to use your perception but it's even more increasingly difficult to try and see Chuvalo equal to Klitschko like this.

I believe I pointed out he hasn't achieved anything at all. I was addressing your PERCEPTION that he's achieved something.

I said he's achieved more then Vitali, not something, (Assuming to you something means achieving greatness) what about that can't get through to you ?, I'm not arguing about them being great I'm comparing them to see who has had the better career.

Wrong! I pointed out, not that it was a plus, but rather that it isn't as big a negative as Wlad's losses.....two VERY different things.

And you skip over the fact that the fat, old, inactive Lewis was better than the detritus Wlad lost to ON THEIR BEST DAY.

Yet in your context you made it sound as if it was a plus over Wlad's career that he lost to Lewis, it's not, it's simply a loss.
I misread, I didn't skip.

The both bring the same amatuer mentality to the ring. It's a function of sports culture they were developed in rather than some unique flaw of Vitali's.

Again but it didn't happen, we cannot go of what you simply think would of happened if it didn't, because Vitali lost by injury and Wlad didn't does not mean that you can 'degrade' Wlad because you think he would do the same.

[StarshipTrooper]

I understand not all traits are of equal value, but I don't agree that a weak chin will put you in more danger of failing to achieve greatness than lacklustre technique or mediocre skills --- there is a counter-fighter in history for every Rocky Marciano. I could start with Terry Norris.

Terry Norris isn't an ATG. He's a near-great AT BEST. Off the top of my head I can't think of ANY fighter I'd regard as an ATG calibre fighter that has a glass-jaw. The usual example people give is Thomas Hearns which is complete BS: Hearns did NOT have a glass-jaw. His chin may not have been a strength but it wasn't a liability either.

Poet

[Spray_resistant]

Your being completely unrealistic to nuthug your favorite fighter when you were *****ing about the exact same behaviour, Shavers completely outdoes Sanders in the fighters he has stunned, dropped, knocked out and the compliments of his power. Its pretty obvious who the harder puncher is if you look at it objectively.

If you look at the weights of most of Shavers opponents you will see plenty of 190+ lb guys or fighters who barely weighed 200, even some guys in the 180s.

Sanders fought in a time of bigger HWs where most of the HWs of Shavers time were CWs and some would be LHWs.

I am not saying for sure that Sanders is a harder hitter but he was fighting bigger guys so unless we have some PSI numbers its really impossible to say who hit harder............if you want to look at it objectively that is.

[JAB5239]

If you look at the weights of most of Shavers opponents you will see plenty of 190+ lb guys or fighters who barely weighed 200, even some guys in the 180s.

Sanders fought in a time of bigger HWs where most of the HWs of Shavers time were CWs and some would be LHWs.

I am not saying for sure that Sanders is a harder hitter but he was fighting bigger guys so unless we have some PSI numbers its really impossible to say who hit harder............if you want to look at it objectively that is.

Also looking at it objectively you can say the bigger fighters Sanders fought were not as well conditioned giving them less punch resistance.

[Spray_resistant]

Also looking at it objectively you can say the bigger fighters Sanders fought were not as well conditioned giving them less punch resistance.

That is hard to say and I don't know if conditioning played a part in any of the stoppages.

They both fought alot of tomato cans but even someone who isn't that good technically can have a better chin than a world class fighter.

[Steak]

And too many nuthuggers like to excuse losses. They exist and they matter just as much as wins do. And it matters who you besat and who you lose to. There's a big difference between losing to Lennox Lewis and losing to detritus like Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster. Especially when said fighter lacks any quality wins to offset those losses (quality win = quality opponent, and Wlad hasn't fought any).

Poet

Liston, Johnson, Wills and Dempsey all had similiarly bad early losses. does that stop them from being ATGs?

I prefer to look at who the fighters beat, and how good they were on their best nights rather than their worst.

[Steak]

That is hard to say and I don't know if conditioning played a part in any of the stoppages.

They both fought alot of tomato cans but even someone who isn't that good technically can have a better chin than a world class fighter.

this is true. but often the whole chin thing is overrated. many fighters know how to roll with punches or how to absorb them...or not be caught unexpectedly by them.

there actually is a fair amount of skill involved in punch resistance, although of course physical attributes influences it as well. More experienced fighters seem to naturally understand it and adjust without even conciously thinking about it.

[joseph5620]

Liston, Johnson, Wills and Dempsey all had similiarly bad early losses. does that stop them from being ATGs?

I prefer to look at who the fighters beat, and how good they were on their best nights rather than their worst.

This is why I still think Wlad is great and should be considered as an ATG. Yes there are fighters that rate above him but he is still one of the best heavyweights in history. His domination speaks for itself. I hate debating this topic because you get extremes from both sides with people overrating Wlad and unfairly underrating him.

[IronDanHamza]

This is why I still think Wlad is great and should be considered as an ATG. Yes there are fighters that rate above him but he is still one of the best heavyweights in history. His domination speaks for itself. I hate debating this topic because you get extremes from both sides with people overrating Wlad and unfairly underrating him.

The majority of this post is how I feel.

I can't see him ever breaking into the top 10 Heavyweights at all but that being said I think he has done enough to atleast be considered a great champion IMO.