Ring Magazine ''Alexis Arguello Would KO Floyd Mayweather''

[JAB5239]

I've never seen anything in Corrales' game that made me think he was all that and a bag of chips. He gets a lot of sympathy boosting for dying young. BTW, he wouldn't have a win over Castillo if the ref hadn't allowed him to get away with spitting his mouth piece out. I'm pretty sure Gatti and Ward are going to make the HOF too.....that doesn't make them great fighters.

Poet

While it was probably the best fight I've ever seen I think strong arguments can be made for the above. That said, he still won.

As far as Corrales going to the hall...he has a good shot, but I think it will be based more on the excitement he brought than anything else. Thats not to say he isn't deserving, but I can think of plenty of fighters who aren't in and deserve it more. Premature death always magnifies a fighters career in my opinion.

[Obama]

I've never seen anything in Corrales' game that made me think he was all that and a bag of chips. He gets a lot of sympathy boosting for dying young. BTW, he wouldn't have a win over Castillo if the ref hadn't allowed him to get away with spitting his mouth piece out. I'm pretty sure Gatti and Ward are going to make the HOF too.....that doesn't make them great fighters.

Poet

The Popo fight was one of the most outstanding fights I've ever seen in terms of skill and pace. And Micky Ward will never make the HOF....and Gatti only makes it cuz just about every fight he had put spectators on the edge of their seats. He's arguably the greatest showman of all time (and my personal favorite). So uh, that helps a lot...

[StarshipTrooper]

The Popo fight was one of the most outstanding fights I've ever seen in terms of skill and pace. And Micky Ward will never make the HOF....and Gatti only makes it cuz just about every fight he had put spectators on the edge of their seats. He's arguably the greatest showman of all time (and my personal favorite). So uh, that helps a lot...

My point is that HOF entry isn't a selling point for greatness: If you're a popular fighter you'll probably get in. Coralles was an entertaining fighter which will be his ticket into the hall.

Poet

[joseph5620]

I've never seen anything in Corrales' game that made me think he was all that and a bag of chips. He gets a lot of sympathy boosting for dying young. BTW, he wouldn't have a win over Castillo if the ref hadn't allowed him to get away with spitting his mouth piece out. I'm pretty sure Gatti and Ward are going to make the HOF too.....that doesn't make them great fighters.

Poet

The ref took a point away so he really didn't let him get away with it. Corrales was a devastating puncher and was brutalizing fighters at 130. Some very good ones too. I think if anything Corrales gets underrated and he was actually the favorite in the Mayweather fight. His death has nothing to do with what he did in the ring or how I saw him as a fighter.

[StarshipTrooper]

The ref took a point away so he really didn't let him get away with it. Corrales was a devastating puncher and was brutalizing fighters at 130. Some very good ones too. I think if anything Corrales gets underrated and he was actually the favorite in the Mayweather fight. His death has nothing to do with what he did in the ring or how I saw him as a fighter.

I would have disqualified him.....anything short of that is letting him get away with it. I have this real big thing about people profiting from their own misbehavior.

While he may not get bennies from you personally from dying young, I don't think it's deniable that he DOES get a boost in his reputation with a lot of fans from it. I'm sorry but Corrales was a good fighter, but not a great one.

And who did he really brutalize? A Freitas who was never really that good? An over-glorified club fighter like Manfredy? Gainer? Who are the very good fighters that he brutalized? Diego lost two out of three to Casamayor and his sole win was a highly debatable split-decision.....and Casamayor isn't exactly one of the greats either. He's a very good, but not great fighter. So I don't see it really. I'm sorry but I don't have emotional reactions to fighters I find entertaining. Corralles was a good, entertaining fighter.....but I don't confuse his entertainment value with actual in-ring greatness.

Poet

[Silencers]

I think Mayweather would've been a bad styles matchup for Arguello, he'd be able to constantly make Arguello reset and pop him with his potshots from the outside.

[BennyST]

Ahhh, I don't think so. At 130, I would choose Floyd over Arguello. Just a bad style match up. The one thing I know Arguello would have a great deal of trouble with is the lead right hand, the speed and having to reset again and again.

Go watch Ernesto Marcel, the great FW champion, fight. He fights very, very similar to Mayweather. Very quick, great defense, moves just enough to make his opponent move/reset, has the closest thing I've seen to Mayweather's right lead (and uses it just as much) etc. He fought the same as Mayweather and beat Arguello with it.

"Mayweather's claim to best SFW of all time is just as strong as Duran's at LW."
"Overall I agree with this."

As to that; I'm not sure I could agree. Mayweather never unified, which would not have been hard at the time, only fought two champs that could also be called a very good 130 pounder (probably not even HOFers at that), didn't have a very good reign in terms of length or quality (8 defenses with the best win being Genaro Hernandez in his last fight before retirement and Corrales over three years) compared to other 130 pound greats. In our era of title ridden divisions, he only fought a few champs.

The one thing that does put him up there is his skill and dominance of who he did fight and beat. However, compare his actual resume of wins to others and I think that's it's pretty easy to say he's not the best. You could say it based on his skill but not his resume, length and quality of reign, or showing genuine dominance by unifying properly.

Arguello has the same amount of title defenses, but they include Rolando Navarette, Alfredo Escalera x 2, Bobby Chacon, Rafael Limon, undefeated Ruben Castillo.

Azumah Nelson had a decade long reign at SFW with 13 or 14 defenses over two reigns (11 in the first and 3 in the second I think) and also better competition.

Flash Elorde has a greater reign as the Undisputed SFW champ also over a decade and with a resume at 130 that ****s on most. Made 11 defenses, with 7 I think as the Undisputed champ. Has a series of great HOF opposition and champions beaten there such as Johnny Bizzaro, Sandy Saddler, Harold Gomes, Ismael Laguna, Teruo Kosaka etc etc etc.

Hiroshi Kobayashi is also without doubt one of the top 130 pounders of all time, and you could argue his case as having possibly the best 130 resume of all of them, if not for a couple of non title losses (he was the man in what myself and most would consider the toughest, greatest era for 130). He was the Undisputed champ for five years I think. He has such great HOFers/champs and fighters as Yoshikai Numata, Jaime Valladares, Ricardo Arredondo, Rene Barrientos, Antonio Amaya, Carlos Canete, Shozo Saijo (one of the great FW champs ever from Japan) Mitsunori Seki, Katsutoshi Aoki, plus many, many more. Most probably only remember him as the guy Duran knocked out as an up and comer but he was past his best by then.

It's funny though. 130 is one of the my favourite divisions and one of the most overlooked historically and when people say 'Mayweather is definitely the greatest at 130' it makes me wonder if they know about the history of it.

Sammy Serrano is another who reigned across nearly a decade. A current HOF nominee and current World HOFer. Made 16 defenses across two reigns.

Alfredo Escalera is one people always forget about. Made 12 defenses before losing those two great fights to Arguello.

Ben Villaflor, the great Hawaii/Phillipines champ was also a great 130 champ that had a terrific series with the great Japanese 130 champ Kuniaki Shibata among 8 defenses and two reigns.

It has a deep history and Mayweather is by no means the best and I find it hard to say he is in the top three with his resume in comparison. The only way is through his skill, which is always iffy at best.

[HaglerSteelChin]

I will be brief, as my pc turned off last time i wrote the post. Arguello had trouble with boxers who had lateral movement as Vilomar Fernandez who got a close win against him in the first fight. Fernandez even did the ali shuffle to boast he was outboxing arguello. Than years later, Ruben Castillo who was 44-0 at the time(tv broadcast and boxrec differs) was doing well against Arguello before he was knocked out in Rd11. Arguello need to time to set and load up with guys, but if you kept moving it made it difficult for him. But with the Castillo fight he found ways to cut off the ring and go for the body.

At 130, Mayweather is not the same fighter at 147. Even those who hate him will concede that was easily his best weight and he won the 1998 FOTY for his great perfomances at 130. May was more durable and stronger at 130, so his blows would do damage at arguello. I see Mayweather winning a UD at 130.

[HaglerSteelChin]

My point is that HOF entry isn't a selling point for greatness: If you're a popular fighter you'll probably get in. Coralles was an entertaining fighter which will be his ticket into the hall.

Poet

The IBHOF is like many other HOF which is bascially puts politics and economics into the factor. Esteban Dejesus was likely a bubble candidate and never got in because he murdered a man and was a drug user who died of AIDS. If the voters know you and love you than it will win over votes.

Vernon Forrest probably don't belong in the IBHOF, but as jab said when you die young it magnifies your career, and Forrest was a great guy who helped many kids with disabilities so that along with early death will get him consideration.

Pete Rose will never see the baseball hall of fame, due to ******** as a manager, but he won't even get in as a player, the media hated him especially for the infamous 1979 all star game where he pummeled a catcher in an exhibition game. Yet we know members of Ku Klux Klan, wife beaters, and possible PED users have gotten in or will get in.

Popularity is a factor. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominates Bon Jovi and inducts Metallica before more deserving bands as Rush, Purple, Maiden, and Priest mainly since they have superior sales. The 3 chord make up artists known as Kiss also get nominated due to popularity.

If you look at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame they already have guys like Cerefino Garcia and Dejesus, it seems the IBHOF probably won't follow suit since they will feel foolish after the other HOF put them in, and would only highlight their failure to induct them earlier.

[oc9979]

With all due respect, what is this based on?

wasnt Duran's first loss because he got frustrated from Leonard boxing circles and he could not catch Leonard.