Klitschko brothers vs These fighters

[nomadman]

Liston didn't paw with his jab the way Wlad does. Wlad's jab only appears great because the other Heavyweights around today have lousy jabs so Wlad's appears good by comparison. Liston's was FAR better than Wlad's.

No it wasn't. A side by side comparison should be enough to show that Wlad's jab is superior is almost every way.

[nomadman]

Here we go. Two fights which I think are representative of both fighters strengths and attributes. I'll let viewers judge for themselves.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Liston's jab might have had more concussive thudding power but it was also much, much slower. That Ali was able to avoid it does in no way mean he'll be able to do the same with Wlad's.

His jab was a little slower but less predictable than Wlad's and had much more effect. As i said above, i feel like Wlad's jab is very telegraphed. Hes not an elusive jabber (moving your feet well while jabbing like Holmes, Lewis, Hagler, Liston ect). When Wlad's feet are planted, he does most of his work.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Liston's jab might have had more concussive thudding power but it was also much, much slower. That Ali was able to avoid it does in no way mean he'll be able to do the same with Wlad's.

No it wasn't. A side by side comparison should be enough to show that Wlad's jab is superior is almost every way.

What exactly are the ways other than speed?

[nomadman]

His jab was a little slower but less predictable than Wlad's and had much more effect. As i said above, i feel like Wlad's jab is very telegraphed. Hes not an elusive jabber (moving your feet well while jabbing like Holmes, Lewis, Hagler, Liston ect). When Wlad's feet are planted, he does most of his work.

Actually I take that back. Liston's jab wasn't "much, much slower" but I also don't think Wlad's is much less powerful either. Its effect on pretty much all his opponents, both physically and psychologically should be enough proof of that. I'm not sure why you think Wlad's jab is predictable however. It's anything but. No, he doesn't move his feet like Holmes, but neither did a lot of great jabbers. Wlad does a lot of things with his lead hand in fights that distract fighters, the arm waving, the pawing, the pattycake **** and so on that I can't recall too many guys doing before. Yes, it looks lame and a bit pansified but it's undeniably effective.

[nomadman]

What exactly are the ways other than speed?

Timing, versatility, range finding, control, set up.

[StarshipTrooper]

Wlad is and never has been slow as ****. I suggest you watch any of his earlier fights to realise just how fast his hands were in his younger days. Today's slower version can still outspeed most of the heavyweights out there including Chambers, Ibragimov and Chagaev all of whose hands are by no means slow. Vitali's pretty lumbering, I'll give you that, but his timing is very good and his constant offense and unusual punches catch a lot of fighters that wouldn't otherwise be caught by more orthodox punches thrown at the same speed. I don't think I'm giving Wlad too much credit for his ability to out box fighters. Bums or not, (and there are more than a few skillful guys on his resume) they barely win a round between them. Very few champs throughout history consistently outclassed their opponents (whoever they were) quite so thoroughly as Wlad does. I would also say that the modern Wlad under Manny Steward is much more difficult to beat than his brother, who gives you openings if you're quick enough or strong enough to take them. Head to head I genuinely think he'd do very well against most of the names on that list.

I do believe the following two quotes sum things up perfectly:

Wlad dominates against opponents he has a big reach advantage over who also have absolutely no clue as to how to work their way inside. It's as if they've all been trained to fight one way. Doesn't anybody teach how to fight anymore? In any case, against guys like Ali, Foreman, Liston, and Holmes Wlad has NO reach advantage at all.

The truth is watching these guys it seems like they're programmed to fight the same way every time regardless of opponent or circumstances. It's like they all have the exact same trainer who coaches them in the exact same style. I was appalled watching Chambers, Chagaev, and Ibragimov against Wlad. Instead of pushing forward to get inside Wlad's reach they would actually take steps BACK!!!!! to adjust the range back OUT!!!!! I was like WTF????? They're putting themselves right back out into Wlad's power zone!!!!!! When you have a reach disadvantage you should NEVER take a backwards step. The safest place you can be is INSIDE your opponents reach where they lose leverage on their punches and their power diminishes. Doesn't ANYBODY know how to fight anymore?!?!? What the **** are they teaching these people?!?!?

[StarshipTrooper]

No it wasn't. A side by side comparison should be enough to show that Wlad's jab is superior is almost every way.

:rofl9: :rofl9: What the **** are you smoking? :hand9:

Poet

[nomadman]

:rofl9: :rofl9: What the **** are you smoking? :hand9:

Poet

Bert Sugar's old cigar.

[Vadrigar.]

"What you just showed is that you compared Wlad (who is one of the hardest hitting punchers of all times, 84%) with Terrell (who is one of the MOST FEATHERFISTY opponents with a KORatio of 24% against 200+ opponents). He is even featherfisitier than Clay (40%) and Byrd (50%)." - The comparison between Ali and byrd was not made for punching power, it was made to show elusiveness, workrate, ring generalship, Jabbing ability, reach, height, etc.. of both fighters. If I wanted to show a punching power comparison, I could use all the punchers that ALi has faced without being knocked out. Including earnie shavers who by consensus is the hardest hitter of all time.

Furthermore, the Earnie Terrel video was posted to show Wlad would not be able to land it as regularly as he does on most of his opponents. None of his opponents are elusive in the same fashion that Ali was. Also Ernie Terrel was 6'6.5" and had an 82 inch reach. Also Sonny Liston had an 84ib reach, yet Ali managed to neutralise it. Therefore Wlads reach advantage would be non existent.

"There is not a single opponent of Ali who would compare physique-wise + KO-wise + experience-wise with Wladimir Klitschko. Not a single one." - There is not a single opponent on Wlads resume that can compare to Ali. Not a single one.

"Prime Ali on the other hand is a completely and utterly standard opponent for Klitschko: Not hard hitting, only 6'3''." - Prime Ali hit hard enough to knock fighters down and out. Ali can also trouble wlad with accumulation punches. Height is an advantage for Ali in this fight, due to his speed and ring generalship which complement it. Galaxies away from a standard opponent.

"The only exception would be Ali's weight (Ali's median weight in the 1960ies was 200lbs) which is SUB-standard for Klitschko and that Ali is a former light-heavyweight. Wlad boxed against 8 opponents who boxed <= 175 in their careers. He KOed all of them." -Weight is a clear advantage to ALi not Wlad. Wlad will not be able to deal with the movement and speed of Ali.

It's harder to move effectively when you have a lot of mass to carry around. Also p4p your body doesn't take damage/stress/strain nearly as well. It's pretty much the exception, not the rule, when super heavyweights turn out good.

Wlad= 243ib, lawmon brewster=226ib

Wlad=242ib, corrie sanders=225ib

Both TKO'd Wlad. These fighters are nowhere as fast as ALi. If extrapolate to a lower weight , there is no reason to suggest that Wlads weight will trouble Ali. Wlad will not be able to wear ALi out in this fight because ALi will continuously be dancing and popping Wlad with triple jabs to the body to keep the distance. Therefore Wlads larger weight is neutralised by ALi's ring generalship.

If Ross Purrity, LEMON Brewster, and Corrie Sanders figured out how to whip Wlad, I'm pretty sure guys like Ali, Foreman, Fraizer, Holmes, and Tyson would figure something out.


"Maybe Ali could distract Wlad for a few rounds when he is doing his typical clownin and krumpin" (= floating like a butterfly and mouthing like an ape) but so far nobody withstands Wlad's punishment. Ali was KDed by far lesser men than Klitschko." - Reported for racism. ALi wasn't knocked down by earnie shavers, George Foreman, who hit harder than Wlad. Ali's dancing routine in the first few rounds is to figure out Wlads robotic punching patterns. A clear platform which will be used to punish wlad with right hand counters. Wlad's jab is telegraphed and Ali can easily slip it due to his stellar head movement. Easy way to create openings against a taller opponent.

"Wlad TKO6 Ali. And Wlad wouldn't even sweat."- Wlad will not be able to deal with ALi's higher punch output and workmate. Wlad may even gass out if Ali makes him increase his activity. Wlad dominates against opponents he has a big reach advantage over who also have absolutely no clue as to how to work their way inside. It's as if they've all been trained to fight one way. Against guys like Ali, Foreman, Liston, and Holmes Wlad has NO reach advantage at all. ALi will win this fight.

"Please remember that They called Foreman "Big George Foreman" and Foreman was 210+ lbs and 6'3.5''. Anything like Wlad the world hasn't seen in the *cough* golden age." - You missed out the premise that George Foreman is one of the hardest hitters of all time. His height and weight don't matter. ALi was also similar statistic but is known to be the fastest heavyweight of all time. Far more impressive and exciting than the Wlad, who is dominating fighters which are not an exception to the rule of athletic hindrance.