Klitschko brothers vs These fighters

[Cassius Liston]

Reported for racism. You finally showed your cards: Your crusade against past Heavyweights has everything to do with their having the "wrong" pigmentation and/or lacking "ski", "sko", or "ov" at the end of their names. Thank you for finally revealing your true colors.

Poet

lol "Ski" "Sko" or "Ov" nice comeback man

[knn]

Your crusade against past Heavyweights has everything to do with their having the "wrong" pigmentation and/or lacking "ski", "sko", or "ov" at the end of their names. Thank you for finally revealing your true colors.

Poet

Yawn, the _pinky poet_ talks about true colors.

And what the heck has race to do with it? Especially

• since Rocky Marciano is even more overrated than Ali
• you don't know what color _I_ am
• and Ali himself is a racist

But, OK, enlighten me: What animal does Ali's style remind you of? Is it a donkey? Oops, that's anti-********ic? Or a frog? Ooops, that's fankophobic?

Just watch Ali vs Young:



Oh, man, Ali obviously likes to do the "hands-up-orang-utan" as you can see in the 1st round. Also watch at 6:08: This walking and head grabbing is soooo "ape'esque". Epic? Ape'ic!









And it's not just a seldom sight. Ali was VERY FREQUENTLY doing the orang-utan.

But if you want I can call his style "epileptic zombie". Maybe that fits even better. Oops, was that "libel of the deceased"?

[slicksouthpaw16]

I didn't say it was easy, but Wlad was a far superior boxer in every facet of his game to Sonny Liston. Wlad WOULD land the jab, he would land it consistently and Muhammad would find it difficult to land anything of his own without that jab or sneaky left hook cracking him every time he tried to get inside. If Ali ran, Wlad would stalk him, cut off the ring, and deal with him how he's dealt with boxers like Chambers and Byrd. Softening them up with jab, unloading with straight and the left hook as the punishment wore on.

I would say Wlad is a bit more technically sound than Liston, although Liston has a noticeably longer reach and his jab was more powerful than Wladimir's. I also just noticed than you compared Muhammad Ali to Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers, which is laughable to say the least. The fact that Byrd isn't even close to Ali's level as far as anything is already apparent, but he also fought stationary, was pawing with his right jab and didn't even attempt to show any foot movement in neither of the two fights. As far as Eddie Chambers (who's foot speed was never great) froze up, threw a few feints and stood still with his hands up. Ali wouldn't ''run'', he would dance laterally, create openings and slip Wlad's jab (which is horribly telegraphed). Liston (unlike Wladimir) can jab when hes on the move, yet and still it wasn't very effective. How could Wladimir( who's feet is very flat) be effective with his jab when its telegraphed? I think you underestimate Ali's reflexes and ability to slip jabs (pre exile).

[Joeyzagz]

What you just showed is that you compared Wlad (who is one of the hardest hitting punchers of all times, 80%+) with Terrell (who is one of the MOST FEATHERFISTY opponents with a KORatio of 24% against 200+ opponents). He is even featherfisitier than Clay (40%) and Byrd (50%).

The problem with your argument is that it is far too dependent on the weight is great , premise.

There is a reason why the Heavyweight Division is considered Unlimited after 190-210 lbs. Its because the average 250 lber does not have the same overwhelming advantage being 40+, as a Light-Heavy would have against a Featherweight. A human can only get so big before he becomes a major hindrance athletically. Lennox and Wlad are the exception, most of their supersized opponents are the rule. There is no need to regulate a class beyond 190-210 because the human body regulates itself.

Mccline being a giant fatass hurts him! 10 losses and a KO% around 50 is the main reason why no one has bothered to make an extra class. (Valuev, Briggs, Austin, Arreola etc etc etc all got smoked by smaller guys)

Two facts for you:.

Ali won 100% of the matches where he weighed less than his opponent.

In 100% of Ali's losses, his opponents weighed less than him.

Your ridiculous premise doesn't even fly against the very guy you are trying to discredit! Im not an Ali fanboy by any means, but these cherry picked (200+) stats are misleading and dishonest.

[Joeyzagz]

Most boxers strike that same pose when they are pwning someone. You thought of something that can apply to any boxer and made it a negative Ali thing as always.

[nomadman]

The Klitschko brothers vs These fighters

Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston


Ken Norton
Ron Lyle
Ernie Shavers
Jerry Quarry

Who do you think would win and how?

Ali: Depends what Ali shows up. But, assuming he's at his best I think he UDs Vitali in a Foreman style fight where he'll spend a lot of time covering up against the ropes and strafing Vitali with hard rights the way Sanders was able to do with his left, but also taking quite a bit of punishment in the process. Against Wlad I really don't know. Wlad is an extremely good boxer with massive power, quick hands and an ATG jab who's never lost a decision in the pros, yet has also never faced anyone as good as Ali. Whatever the result I doubt it'd be easy for either man.

Holmes: Hmm, another tough one that I have a hard time predicting. Again, will just say it won't be easy for the winner, whoever that may be.

Foreman: As ludicrous or unfashionable as this may seem I'd actually pick both Klits to beat Foreman. In Vitali, Foreman would be fighting a man bigger and heavier than himself with much the same bullying style and persona. Psychologically that could very well affect his performance in the ring. Physically of course, Vitali is extremely durable and good at avoiding slower looping shots. Foreman might have some success with bodywork, as Vitali's clinch is somewhat lax and he has a propensity for not using it much unless he's seriously hurt. Could also bust up Vit's face with his jab. Vit could also bust Foreman up, and would certainly be landing a large number of punches to Foreman's grill all night long. Ultimately I see both fighters grinding each other down in a gruelling but entertaining slugfest with the bigger Vit emerging the victor. Wlad would outbox George and wouldn't let him touch his chin. Every time George got close he'd be clinched up, negating his inside work. On the outside his slowness and lack of head movement would allow Wlad to impose his jab and control the fight. Maybe I be trippin', but I've got a pretty good eye for seeing how certain fights go based on the individual fighters' styles, and this is how I see this one going.

Frazier: Too small and too limited to pose either Klit a problem. Were this fight held in the seventies I can see Frazier taking an awful beating against Vitali, probably going down a few times, but lasting the distance. In the 2000s I can see Frazier's corner throwing in the towel between rounds, or the ref stopping the contest in a similar fashion to the Danny Williams fight. Against Wlad I can't see any conceivable way Frazier wins. He'd be kept on the end of the jab all night long or clinched up every time he got close. Can see him maybe landing a few unintentional groin punches to Wlad's klitschticles though after Wlad pushes his head down in a clinch.

Liston: He'd pose more of a problem for Vitali than Wlad, despite the latter's weaker chin. Ultimately, I can't see his slow hands landing with much regularity on either Klit. Vit would KO him somewhere around the mid to late rounds. A younger Wlad would dispose of him in a similar way to Mercer, but with a clean KO. Older Wlad busts him up and stops him late.

Ken Norton: Not big enough or strong enough to pose either guy problems. Against Wlad he'd be facing a superior boxer to himself, and I can't see his side on stance doing him any favours against Wlad's jab right hand. Could maybe be a little trickier for Vitali but ultimately stopped somewhere in the middle rounds.

Ron Lyle: Can see Lyle doing alright against Vitali actually. Think he'll have his moments of success before the cumulative effect of Vitali's punches wears him down and he gets taken out late. Wlad UDs him.

Ernie Shavers: The weak chinned Shavers would be stopped by both Klits in the early going. Not much more to say.

Jerry Quarry: Too small and stationary. Wlad would be snapping his Beatles haircut back with every jab he threw. Vit would just manhandle him. Jerry's heart would probably end up with him taking far more punishment than he should take before the fight is stopped.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali: Depends what Ali shows up. But, assuming he's at his best I think he UDs Vitali in a Foreman style fight where he'll spend a lot of time covering up against the ropes and strafing Vitali with hard rights the way Sanders was able to do with his left, but also taking quite a bit of punishment in the process. Against Wlad I really don't know. Wlad is an extremely good boxer with massive power, quick hands and an ATG jab who's never lost a decision in the pros, yet has also never faced anyone as good as Ali. Whatever the result I doubt it'd be easy for either man.

Holmes: Hmm, another tough one that I have a hard time predicting. Again, will just say it won't be easy for the winner, whoever that may be.

Foreman: As ludicrous or unfashionable as this may seem I'd actually pick both Klits to beat Foreman. In Vitali, Foreman would be fighting a man bigger and heavier than himself with much the same bullying style and persona. Psychologically that could very well affect his performance in the ring. Physically of course, Vitali is extremely durable and good at avoiding slower looping shots. Foreman might have some success with bodywork, as Vitali's clinch is somewhat lax and he has a propensity for not using it much unless he's seriously hurt. Could also bust up Vit's face with his jab. Vit could also bust Foreman up, and would certainly be landing a large number of punches to Foreman's grill all night long. Ultimately I see both fighters grinding each other down in a gruelling but entertaining slugfest with the bigger Vit emerging the victor. Wlad would outbox George and wouldn't let him touch his chin. Every time George got close he'd be clinched up, negating his inside work. On the outside his slowness and lack of head movement would allow Wlad to impose his jab and control the fight. Maybe I be trippin', but I've got a pretty good eye for seeing how certain fights go based on the individual fighters' styles, and this is how I see this one going.

Frazier: Too small and too limited to pose either Klit a problem. Were this fight held in the seventies I can see Frazier taking an awful beating against Vitali, probably going down a few times, but lasting the distance. In the 2000s I can see Frazier's corner throwing in the towel between rounds, or the ref stopping the contest in a similar fashion to the Danny Williams fight. Against Wlad I can't see any conceivable way Frazier wins. He'd be kept on the end of the jab all night long or clinched up every time he got close. Can see him maybe landing a few unintentional groin punches to Wlad's klitschticles though after Wlad pushes his head down in a clinch.

Liston: He'd pose more of a problem for Vitali than Wlad, despite the latter's weaker chin. Ultimately, I can't see his slow hands landing with much regularity on either Klit. Vit would KO him somewhere around the mid to late rounds. A younger Wlad would dispose of him in a similar way to Mercer, but with a clean KO. Older Wlad busts him up and stops him late.

Ken Norton: Not big enough or strong enough to pose either guy problems. Against Wlad he'd be facing a superior boxer to himself, and I can't see his side on stance doing him any favours against Wlad's jab right hand. Could maybe be a little trickier for Vitali but ultimately stopped somewhere in the middle rounds.

Ron Lyle: Can see Lyle doing alright against Vitali actually. Think he'll have his moments of success before the cumulative effect of Vitali's punches wears him down and he gets taken out late. Wlad UDs him.

Ernie Shavers: The weak chinned Shavers would be stopped by both Klits in the early going. Not much more to say.

Jerry Quarry: Too small and stationary. Wlad would be snapping his Beatles haircut back with every jab he threw. Vit would just manhandle him. Jerry's heart would probably end up with him taking far more punishment than he should take before the fight is stopped.

I think you're giving the slow as **** Klitschkos far more credit for speed than they deserve. Also, you're giving Wlad far too much credit for being able to out-box fighters who can match him in reach AND, unlike the stiffs he's fought, can actually fight. You're also making out Wlad to be the better of the two Klitschko brothers: He isn't.....not by a long shot.

Poet

[nomadman]

I would say Wlad is a bit more technically sound than Liston, although Liston has a noticeably longer reach and his jab was more powerful than Wladimir's. I also just noticed than you compared Muhammad Ali to Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers, which is laughable to say the least. The fact that Byrd isn't even close to Ali's level as far as anything is already apparent, but he also fought stationary, was pawing with his right jab and didn't even attempt to show any foot movement in neither of the two fights. As far as Eddie Chambers (who's foot speed was never great) froze up, threw a few feints and stood still with his hands up. Ali wouldn't ''run'', he would dance laterally, create openings and slip Wlad's jab (which is horribly telegraphed). Liston (unlike Wladimir) can jab when hes on the move, yet and still it wasn't very effective. How could Wladimir( who's feet is very flat) be effective with his jab when its telegraphed? I think you underestimate Ali's reflexes and ability to slip jabs (pre exile).

Liston's jab might have had more concussive thudding power but it was also much, much slower. That Ali was able to avoid it does in no way mean he'll be able to do the same with Wlad's.

[StarshipTrooper]

Liston's jab might have had more concussive thudding power but it was also much, much slower. That Ali was able to avoid it does in no way mean he'll be able to do the same with Wlad's.

Liston didn't paw with his jab the way Wlad does. Wlad's jab only appears great because the other Heavyweights around today have lousy jabs so Wlad's appears good by comparison. Liston's was FAR better than Wlad's.

Poet

[nomadman]

I think you're giving the slow as **** Klitschkos far more credit for speed than they deserve. Also, you're giving Wlad far too much credit for being able to out-box fighters who can match him in reach AND, unlike the stiffs he's fought, can actually fight. You're also making out Wlad to be the better of the two Klitschko brothers: He isn't.....not by a long shot.

Wlad is and never has been slow as ****. I suggest you watch any of his earlier fights to realise just how fast his hands were in his younger days. Today's slower version can still outspeed most of the heavyweights out there including Chambers, Ibragimov and Chagaev all of whose hands are by no means slow. Vitali's pretty lumbering, I'll give you that, but his timing is very good and his constant offense and unusual punches catch a lot of fighters that wouldn't otherwise be caught by more orthodox punches thrown at the same speed. I don't think I'm giving Wlad too much credit for his ability to out box fighters. Bums or not, (and there are more than a few skillful guys on his resume) they barely win a round between them. Very few champs throughout history consistently outclassed their opponents (whoever they were) quite so thoroughly as Wlad does. I would also say that the modern Wlad under Manny Steward is much more difficult to beat than his brother, who gives you openings if you're quick enough or strong enough to take them. Head to head I genuinely think he'd do very well against most of the names on that list.