If Ali were never stripped of his title in 1967, could he have beaten Louis' record?

[JAB5239]

You don't have to beat EVERY fighter to be the GOAT.

So no need to defend Joe Louis in "every" fantasy head to head fight.

Muhammad Ali might have lost to Mike Tyson,but that doesn't make Tyson the greater fighter with the better resume.The same goes for Joe Frazier.He might have beat a prime Muhammad Ali,but that would not make him the GOAT.Sonny Liston and George Forman both blast out Frazier early.The same goes with Mike Tyson.But Muhammad Ali beats both Sonny Liston and George Forman.Muhammad Ali has a better resume then both Tyson and Frazier.

So no need to defend Joe Louis in EVERY fantasy head to head match up.He doesn't have to beat "everybody" to be the GOAT.Muhammad Ali's style would be a nightmare for Joe Louis.George Forman and Sonny Liston both have a better than a 50-50 chance of beating Joe Louis.That doesn't mean there better than Joe Louis,and have a better resume.

Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis have the two best resume's of all-time.There so close I will say there even for the sake of argument.But Muhammad Ali fought and beat the better opposition than Joe Louis.It's just speculation when you say Joe Louis would beat Sonny Liston,George Forman,and Joe Frazier.But it's a FACT that Muhammad Ali beat them all.

You really believe Joe Louis would beat Muhammad Ali,George Forman,Sonny Liston,and Joe Frazier? Remember,he doesn't have to beat them all to be the GOAT. Which fighter do you feel would have the best chance of beating Joe Louis?

I don't get you. One minute you're saying Louis has a weak resume. Now its second or equal to Ali's. Which is it my man?

At his very best I think Louis beats any other heavyweight in history. That is my opinion based on watching countless hours of the heavyweight greats and reading about them. If one were to beat him it would be Ali. Either can be argued as the greatest heavyweight ever, but for my money b=it is Joe. Ali fought the better comp, but I value consistency, longevity and decisiveness a bit higher. As said, that is only my opinion.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Ali didn't overlook anyone during his first title reign,not sure why he would suddenly start with an undefeated gold medalist.

Ali of the 60's wasn't the fat out shape blob of the 70's.He always stayed in shape.


frazier's a fairly easy defense.frazier and Yank Durham knew this too....which is why they were in no hurry to fight him at his peak.

Frazier didn't start fighting top contenders till late in 1966. Ali was banned in early '67. As usual your time line doesn't add up with your lies. And even if they could have fought him what was the hurry anyway? Were Frazier and his team privy to knowing Ali would be stripped and banned too?

[boxingbuff]

I don't get you. One minute you're saying Louis has a weak resume. Now its second or equal to Ali's. Which is it my man?

At his very best I think Louis beats any other heavyweight in history. That is my opinion based on watching countless hours of the heavyweight greats and reading about them. If one were to beat him it would be Ali. Either can be argued as the greatest heavyweight ever, but for my money b=it is Joe. Ali fought the better comp, but I value consistency, longevity and decisiveness a bit higher. As said, that is only my opinion.

I never said Joe Louis had a weak resume.I said he fought weak opposition compared to Ali's opposition,and never beat a top 15 Heavyweight of all-time.

Just because you have the best resume doesn't mean you beat everybody,or are better than everybody head to head.Ali and Louis have the best resume's,but that doesn't mean "style wise" you lose a couple fantasy head to head fights.Like I said before,Tyson might beat Muhammad Ali.But that doesn't make Tyson better or have a better resume.Styles make fights my man.Style wise Muhammad Ali would be a nightmere for Joe Louis.So would Sonny Liston and George Forman.Style wise, Joe Frazier would be an easy fight for Joe Louis.I see Louis taking out Frazier early.

You don't have to defend and pick Joe Louis to beat EVERYBODY to be the GOAT.Get real,you really can't believe he beats Muhammad Ali,George Forman,and Sonny Liston.He never beat a top 15 heavyweight for crying out loud.

[geribeetus]

I never said Joe Louis had a weak resume.I said he fought weak opposition compared to Ali's opposition,and never beat a top 15 Heavyweight of all-time.

ali has the name recognition, but let's not overrate the likes of liston,frazier, and foreman. ali's comp was better, but to say walcott, charles, conn, or baer were weak in comparison is a bit of a stretch.

[JAB5239]

I never said Joe Louis had a weak resume.I said he fought weak opposition compared to Ali's opposition,and never beat a top 15 Heavyweight of all-time.

Just because you have the best resume doesn't mean you beat everybody,or are better than everybody head to head.Ali and Louis have the best resume's,but that doesn't mean "style wise" you lose a couple fantasy head to head fights.Like I said before,Tyson might beat Muhammad Ali.But that doesn't make Tyson better or have a better resume.Styles make fights my man.Style wise Muhammad Ali would be a nightmere for Joe Louis.So would Sonny Liston and George Forman.Style wise, Joe Frazier would be an easy fight for Joe Louis.I see Louis taking out Frazier early.

You don't have to defend and pick Joe Louis to beat EVERYBODY to be the GOAT.Get real,you really can't believe he beats Muhammad Ali,George Forman,and Sonny Liston.He never beat a top 15 heavyweight for crying out loud.

You keep saying Louis "never beat a top 15 heavyweight". So what? What top 15 heavyweight was there for him to fight? At his best he was a machine who almost always left nothing to argument by knocking his opponents out. At his best there wasn't and isn't a harder, faster more precise combination puncher. There wasn't a better finisher. This is what I base my opinions on as well as what I've already stated.

[boxingbuff]

ali has the name recognition, but let's not overrate the likes of liston,frazier, and foreman. ali's comp was better, but to say walcott, charles, conn, or baer were weak in comparison is a bit of a stretch.

Alright,lets compare them.......

Ali vs Walcott
Charles vs Liston
Foreman vs Conn
Frazier vs Baer

You break down each fight,and tell me how each fight goes and who wins and how?

I'll be waiting on your response.I bet you won't do it.But you should,you brought it up my friend.

[boxingbuff]

[/B]

You keep saying Louis "never beat a top 15 heavyweight". So what? What top 15 heavyweight was there for him to fight? At his best he was a machine who almost always left nothing to argument by knocking his opponents out. At his best there wasn't and isn't a harder, faster more precise combination puncher. There wasn't a better finisher. This is what I base my opinions on as well as what I've already stated.

Foreman,Liston,and Frazier would have destroyed all of them too.

[geribeetus]

Alright,lets compare them.......

Ali vs Walcott
Charles vs Liston
Foreman vs Conn
Frazier vs Baer

You break down each fight,and tell me how each fight goes and who wins and how?

I'll be waiting on your response.I bet you won't do it.But you should,you brought it up my friend.

i like analyzing fights, so why not.

liston would have a hard time hitting someone like charles. charles has a good shot at decisioning liston. of course liston could knock charles out, but it's a 50/50 thing.

baer could very possibly do a foreman on frazier especially considering baer's reach. and frazier wouldn't have an easy time hurting baer, who louis said beating was akin to beating up a brick wall. i think either could win by ko.

foreman and conn, unsurprisingly you picked a bad matchup for conn. i think foreman knocks out conn sometime around 6 but he'd be boxing foreman's ears off until the end.

i'm not sure why you picked walcott vs ali, considering this is about their competition. real smart move there.

"I bet you won't do it.But you should,you brought it up my friend."

that's possibly the most juvenile thing i've ever heard in the history forum. anytime you feel like growing up, please do. you seem to be taking this thread very seriously though, so i think maturity is a long way off for you.

[JAB5239]

You can't prove fantasy fights,or when going on speculation or assumptions.That's true.

Ali beat Foreman and Frazier AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off.Could Louis do so after such a lay-off?

Foreman,Liston,and Frazier would have destroyed all of them too.

You wrote the words in bold, right? I mean it says you did. So if we're to believe what you initially wrote, and I do, what are you basing this most recent comment on? I know when I wrote that Louis was the fastest most precise combination puncher it was based on facts that are supported by experts and historians alike. Well?

[Rolling Stone]

lol....why the **** are you idiots debating the same topic in 3 different threads????

da ****??

Ali's resume >>>> Joe's resume

you have to be blind or ****** to think otherwise