Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[StarshipTrooper]

prime norton,shavers,lyle,and young all shouldve been on his resume.do you agree?

Sorry, but Shavers, Lyle, and Young all rose to prominence at the time when Frazier was on his way out. As for Norton, he was Frazier's stable mate AND sparring partner as well as a close friend: That fight was never going to happen.

BTW, it's pretty revealing about your boxing knowledge that you regard guys like Quarry, Bonevena, and Jones as bums.

Oh, and 1 win over Ali > than all of Wlad and Vitali's wins COMBINED.

Poet

[Roger Yomama]

Sorry, but Shavers, Lyle, and Young all rose to prominence at the time when Frazier was on his way out. As for Norton, he was Frazier's stable mate AND sparring partner as well as a close friend: That fight was never going to happen.

BTW, it's pretty revealing about your boxing knowledge that you regard guys like Quarry, Bonevena, and Jones as bums.

Oh, and 1 win over Ali > than all of Wlad and Vitali's wins COMBINED.

Poet

Amen to that.

[Norton]

Fraziers style would be a nightmare for the K bros. They are very upright and don't tuck their chins, and they don't seem to like fighting inside. Everyone they face fights them at their reach. Frazier would be inside and never take a step back. I'm not so certain they would even have any punching power in close.

That's why boxers uses clinch, especially smart and skilled tall boxers, like Lewis and Klitschkos. But this is really irrelevant, just let statistics speak for itself: Joe Frazier height 5′ 11½″/182 cm reach 73″/185 cm Vitali Klitschko height 6′ 7½/202 cm reach 80″/203 cm Wladimir Klitschko height 6′6½″/199 cm reach 81″/206 cm

They are all good boxers, and a big good boxer always beats a small good boxer.

[StarshipTrooper]

That's why boxers uses clinch, especially smart and skilled tall boxers, like Lewis and Klitschkos. But this is really irrelevant, just let statistics speak for itself: Joe Frazier height 5′ 11½″/182 cm reach 73″/185 cm Vitali Klitschko height 6′ 7½/202 cm reach 80″/203 cm Wladimir Klitschko height 6′6½″/199 cm reach 81″/206 cm

They are all good boxers, and a big good boxer always beats a small good boxer.

Always? I seem to recall Frazier (good small boxer) beating Ali (good big boxer - height 6'3" reach 80"). When you make a universal statement like that it only takes one example to the contrary to invalidate it according to the rules of logic.

Poet

[Norton]

Always? I seem to recall Frazier (good small boxer) beating Ali (good big boxer - height 6'3" reach 80"). When you make a universal statement like that it only takes one example to the contrary to invalidate it according to the rules of logic.

Poet

Well, long time not seen Poet Don't cling to the words. It's just boxing adage. Of course, more accurate is to say "in most cases". But you can not erase words from the song (another adage . And, as I recall, there was a rematch, where the good big boxer... you know.

[NChristo]

Are you trying to compare that "Good big boxer" with the Klits ?, styles make fights and last I looked Foremans style is nothing like either of the Klits, stop trying to make the comparison that all big fighters would beat Frazier just because Foreman did, it's kind of silly.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well, long time not seen Poet Don't cling to the words. It's just boxing adage. Of course, more accurate is to say "in most cases". But you can not erase words from the song (another adage . And, as I recall, there was a rematch, where the good big boxer... you know.

Well met! I point it out because too many people cling dogmatically to those adages and all too often those adages are overly simplistic reasoning for complex problems. Most of them take hold because boxing broadcasters spout them over and over again because they believe the casual fan is too dumb to understand what's going on unless you give them **** and Jane explanations.....then again, considering the intelligence level of many of the posters in NSB maybe the broadcasters have a point!

Poet

[Norton]

Are you trying to compare that "Good big boxer" with the Klits ?, styles make fights and last I looked Foremans style is nothing like either of the Klits, stop trying to make the comparison that all big fighters would beat Frazier just because Foreman did, it's kind of silly.

Not "just because Foreman did". There is a reason for the separation of boxers into weight categories. But if you need examples, you just gave one - Foreman. Another one - Ali. It is rare when big good boxers appears - mostly big guys rely on their height and weight advantages. But when they smart and skilled - like Ali, Lewis or Klitschkos, they dominate.

[Norton]

Well met! I point it out because too many people cling dogmatically to those adages and all too often those adages are overly simplistic reasoning for complex problems. Most of them take hold because boxing broadcasters spout them over and over again because they believe the casual fan is too dumb to understand what's going on unless you give them **** and Jane explanations.....then again, considering the intelligence level of many of the posters in NSB maybe the broadcasters have a point!

Poet

That's for sure

[DeepSleep]

People harping on the whole size issue need to remember that height isn't that big of a deal compared to a fighter's reach/arm length. Wladmir has a reach of 81" and Vitali has a reach of 80", compare that to Ali who had a reach of 80". Now Ali was a much faster and accurate puncher than either Klitschko and he couldn't keep Frazier away from him. If Ali couldn't keep Frazier off him for 12 rounds I doubt either Klitschko could.

I don't think you can compare the Foreman fight to a fight with either Klitschko. Foreman loved having people coming inside on him, his hooks and uppercuts were extremely effective inside where he could throw them fairly quickly and with terrifying force. The Klitshko's are through and through out fighters. Both of the Big-K brothers like having people at range where they can use their power effectively and don't have too much infighting experience unlike Foreman. The Klitschko's may generate a similar amount of power to Foreman at range but in close I don't think either can hit nearly as hard as Foreman does.

I think Wlad has next to no chance of beating Frazier due to his chin being rather questionable. Vitali on the other hand could give Frazier a decent fight. If Vitali can tie up Frazier effectively on the inside he may be able to catch him coming in with one of his big straight right hands. If Frazier gets inside and Vitali doesn't clinch him the fight will be rather one sided, Vitali doesn't have the speed or style to fight inside like Foreman and he would get chopped down. His chin and power will give him a chance but I'm not sure he could tie up Frazier effectively for 12 rounds.