Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[QueensburyRules]

Rockin still has the fight with Siablo ahead of him.

- - Poke him wif a crutch followed by an overhand crutch and BINGO, no more Sia...

[StarshipTrooper]

Rockin still has the fight with Siablo ahead of him.

Rockin' can still get the wall after Siablo savate kicks him out of his wheelchair

[markusmod]

Rockin' can still get the wall after Siablo savate kicks him out of his wheelchair

Wrong, Siablo wants to put him in the figure four leglock, and then Macho Man elbow off the top

[Willow The Wisp]

Maybe / maybe not but hell dereck chisora who is nothing like joe Frazier have vitali fits !!!!! Dereck chisora has zero power !!!! Joe Frazier had power !!! U can’t rule out Frazier beating vitali or wlad I mean Brewster chewed wlad up and spat him out - imagine what joe Frazier can do if Brewster can ???

I have deep respect for both Wladamir and Vitali as men and as boxers, and I truly believe that either one at his best presents a formidable obstacle for any heavyweight who ever lived bar none! But a number of people here on this board, good, knowledgeable people, are not giving Joe Frazier the credit he deserves if they envision anyone other than George Foreman doing him the way Foreman did. I believe, seeing all three greats from good seats live and on a screen many times, that Frazier gets inside with minimal effort and rips them both up. That's no knock on either man, it's simply a matter of what specifically would be required to maintain the perpetually in motion machine with the reaping left hook at the end of their punches. Vitali was to slow and upright and Wladimir was too fragile to last the 15 rounds against Frazier. I might be slow on the uptake but Ive read Nobody’s musings that persuade me to see it any other way.

[JAB5239]

I have deep respect for both Wladamir and Vitali as men and as boxers, and I truly believe that either one at his best presents a formidable obstacle for any heavyweight who ever lived bar none! But a number of people here on this board, good, knowledgeable people, are not giving Joe Frazier the credit he deserves if they envision anyone other than George Foreman doing him the way Foreman did. I believe, seeing all three greats from good seats live and on a screen many times, that Frazier gets inside with minimal effort and rips them both up. That's no knock on either man, it's simply a matter of what specifically would be required to maintain the perpetually in motion machine with the reaping left hook at the end of their punches. Vitali was to slow and upright and Wladimir was too fragile to last the 15 rounds against Frazier. I might be slow on the uptake but Ive read Nobody’s musings that persuade me to see it any other way.

Frazier would be bobbing and weaving under the Klitschko punches. Foreman punches were hooks and uppercuts that Frazier bobbed and weaved right into. It's much easier to avoid straight punches with that style. Vitaly would be the harder fight as he was more unconventional with his punches, but the outcome would still be the same. Neither Klit fared very well when faced with adversity and Frazier would bring plenty of it. The pace he'd set would be debilitating and exhausting for his bigger foes. Jmo.

[Willow The Wisp]

Frazier would be bobbing and weaving under the Klitschko punches. Foreman punches were hooks and uppercuts that Frazier bobbed and weaved right into. It's much easier to avoid straight punches with that style. Vitaly would be the harder fight as he was more unconventional with his punches, but the outcome would still be the same. Neither Klit fared very well when faced with adversity and Frazier would bring plenty of it. The pace he'd set would be debilitating and exhausting for his bigger foes. Jmo.

Right on. People may have lost sight of the fact(s) that the 29 year old, never-caught-a-beating Ali that Frazier decisively beat in 71' was comming off emphatic wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought up to that point (Quarry and Bonavena), and Ali's distress in the fight was purely Frazier and not the silly ring rust BS. It was, in spite of the loss, one of Ali's very best performances in one of the best fights ever fought.

[Ivich]

Right on. People may have lost sight of the fact(s) that the 29 year old, never-caught-a-beating Ali that Frazier decisively beat in 71' was comming off emphatic wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought up to that point (Quarry and Bonavena), and Ali's distress in the fight was purely Frazier and not the silly ring rust BS. It was, in spite of the loss, one of Ali's very best performances in one of the best fights ever fought.

You believe 18 rounds of combat in 4 years was a sufficient to prepare and condition Ali to face the undefeated no 1 man Frazier?
I profoundly disagree.
Ali spent huge periods of the fight on the ropes or in corners,you may say he did so because Frazier made him do it?
I say he did it because he didn't trust either his legs or his stamina after such a long lay off.Jose Torres agreed with me.
I dont rate FOTC as one of Ali's great performances ,as far as skill are concerned,it certainly is from a courage point of view,he was out on his feet in the 11th.
If your opinion is correct,why didn't Frazier win the 2 subsequent fights?
Dont tell me,Frazier, at 29 was terminally damaged and a shell of the fighter he had been for those bouts.
Yet he looked just the same Smoking Joe against Quarry in their second fight?
If Frazier was so badly depleted by FOTC ,how did he produce such a great fight against Ali nearly 5 years later ?
How was that possible?
IMO The best Ali always beats the best Frazier,but it would never be easy.

Both Klits beat Joe, both are too big and hit too hard for him.

Frazier never faced that combination of size,skill, and power.

Personally I'd rather watch Frazier any day of the week,but I'm picking with my head ,not my heart here.

[QueensburyRules]

You believe 18 rounds of combat in 4 years was a sufficient to prepare and condition Ali to face the undefeated no 1 man Frazier?
I profoundly disagree.
Ali spent huge periods of the fight on the ropes or in corners,you may say he did so because Frazier made him do it?
I say he did it because he didn't trust either his legs or his stamina after such a long lay off.Jose Torres agreed with me.
I dont rate FOTC as one of Ali's great performances ,as far as skill are concerned,it certainly is from a courage point of view,he was out on his feet in the 11th.
If your opinion is correct,why didn't Frazier win the 2 subsequent fights?
Dont tell me,Frazier, at 29 was terminally damaged and a shell of the fighter he had been for those bouts.
Yet he looked just the same Smoking Joe against Quarry in their second fight?
If Frazier was so badly depleted by FOTC ,how did he produce such a great fight against Ali nearly 5 years later ?
How was that possible?
IMO The best Ali always beats the best Frazier,but it would never be easy.

Both Klits beat Joe, both are too big and hit too hard for him.

Frazier never faced that combination of size,skill, and power.

Personally I'd rather watch Frazier any day of the week,but I'm picking with my head ,not my heart here.

- - Ali was OUT on his Bum after 4rds vs Sir 'enery.

Publicly DUCKED his biggest career fight at the peak of his prime in 1967 vs Wilt on National Network TV(ABC) with Howie Cosell as the Matchmaker.

"IT" was possible because clearly as close peers Ali and Joe declined at a similar rate, but I'd pick Joe age 50 over Ali because of the tragic ongoing decline of Ali after Big George BTFO him in Zaire, enough that Ferdie and Herbert banned Ali from ever fighting that lucrative rematch, the damage of which was painfully apparent in the Wepner fight for peanuts.

Yer Welcome...

U picking U nose shows U rate of decline.

[Willow The Wisp]

You believe 18 rounds of combat in 4 years was a sufficient to prepare and condition Ali to face the undefeated no 1 man Frazier?
I profoundly disagree.
Ali spent huge periods of the fight on the ropes or in corners,you may say he did so because Frazier made him do it?
I say he did it because he didn't trust either his legs or his stamina after such a long lay off.Jose Torres agreed with me.
I dont rate FOTC as one of Ali's great performances ,as far as skill are concerned,it certainly is from a courage point of view,he was out on his feet in the 11th.
If your opinion is correct,why didn't Frazier win the 2 subsequent fights?
Dont tell me,Frazier, at 29 was terminally damaged and a shell of the fighter he had been for those bouts.
Yet he looked just the same Smoking Joe against Quarry in their second fight?
If Frazier was so badly depleted by FOTC ,how did he produce such a great fight against Ali nearly 5 years later ?
How was that possible?
IMO The best Ali always beats the best Frazier,but it would never be easy.

Both Klits beat Joe, both are too big and hit too hard for him.

Frazier never faced that combination of size,skill, and power.

Personally I'd rather watch Frazier any day of the week,but I'm picking with my head ,not my heart here.

Of course I am respectful of your thoughts, here and in all things you take time out to post; but I am not moved to alter my opinions even slightly. A for effort though.

[Ivich]

Of course I am respectful of your thoughts, here and in all things you take time out to post; but I am not moved to alter my opinions even slightly. A for effort though.

That's fine we can disagree,and no doubt will again!