Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[r.burgundy]

how can people watch klitschko and possibly think he's better than Frazier. Frazier is just straight better. He's even faster.

straight better lol.based on what?his left hook isnt nowhere near as dominant a punch as a jab from either klit.he had poor defense and his technique was damn near crude as evidenced by the 1 fight he took against a guy who can punch.he had no answer for big george.of course he would be able to move faster,he is 9" shorter and about 50lbs lighter.stop trying to rewrite history.

[r.burgundy]

These two posts sum it up perfectly..

Ezzard Fan-The thing I like about the Klitschkos is that I can cook a pizza between them starting their punches and them landing...

I think that Frazier would easily get inside, the main problem being that he tended to take too many shots to get inside and this is where he'd be vulnerable to these monsters. I'd still pick him to beat them though, just not simultaneously LOL.

Inside fighting is a long lost art, it pretty much died out in the early 60s. The referees these days break fighters apart too soon, that's a big part of the problem. Frazier wasn't as skilled as the fighters that went before him but had far superior inside skills to today's fighters. The Klitschkos have never encountered a fighter with those inside skills.

The fight I really would like to see would be Archie Moore vs a Klitschko. Archie's defense would be perfect for them, and the Old Mongoose was skilled at working his way inside to find the button.

I had an interesting couple of sparring sessions these past two weeks, with an opponent 6 years my junior (I'm 39) that outweighed me by 25lbs and had much longer reach (everyone has a longer reach than me I'm 6' & 175lbs with a 68" reach). The first time I tried to play stick and run and he handed me my ass big time, opening up on me with these huge swinging bombs, stopping me cold and cutting me down. The second time I kept going inside him using the cross armed guard and hitting him with inside punches, uppercuts, short straights, inside cross, short hooks, and even a few overhand shots, alternating my attack between head and body. I wasn't swarming on him just pecking away carefully placing my shots so that they counted. He could barely hit me, was too off balance to clinch, and actually surrendered after 3 rounds looking thoroughly disillusioned. We were wearing head guards and I was holding back a little, but found his button several times. Like many big tall fighters he had a tendency to move his head up from punches exposing his chin. The Klitschkos share this trait.

My point is that old fashioned approach works really well against larger fighters with a reach advantage, if you make it past their jab (the easy part) they try and chop you down with big swings (although they probably consider those to be short hooks LOL) which is essentially what Foreman did to Frazier, but Ancient Archie's cross armed defence is water tight against that type of assault.Originally Posted by them_apples
it took Wlad 12 rounds to get rid of a cruiserweight with 0 heart, how is a guy like Frazier too small?

them_apples-208 lb Evander Holyfield was ****ing with 6'5 Rid**** Bowe. (he lost 2 times and beats bowe once)

On top of that, the Klitschkos really are just lucky to be facing average oponents. they don't posses great hand speed or incredible power, they are simply just strong fundamental boxers with no threats in the division.

I mean look at Kevin Johnson(sp) or Chris Aereolla, or even Eddie chambers, these are guys that Frazier would have knocked out cold in a few rounds.
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208 lb holyfield would beat the hell outta frazier as would rid**** bowe.and rid**** might be the`reason holy is ******ed now

[StarshipTrooper]

and rid**** might be the`reason holy is ******ed now

Speaking of ******ed, you didn't learn much in those special-ed classes did you? Too busy licking windows and drooling on youself huh?

Poet

[r.burgundy]

Speaking of ******ed, you didn't learn much in those special-ed classes did you? Too busy licking windows and drooling on youself huh?

Poet

dude,your jokes are really lame and corny.and please save yourself the time of replying with "i wasnt joking".and if your really 41 years old,please log off and grow up alil bit.me an some other posters are having a peaceful debate.lets keep it that way.thanks

[StarshipTrooper]

dude,your jokes are really lame and corny.and please save yourself the time of replying with "i wasnt joking".and if your really 41 years old,please log off and grow up alil bit.me an some other posters are having a peaceful debate.lets keep it that way.thanks

While I can't to your age you're living proof that ******ity has no age bounderies.

There is no debate going on: They are making valid points while you're making an ass out of yourself. Cases in point: You're obsessed with weight and height, and in addition to assuming that bigger is always better you also assume newer is always better. This shows a clear bias towards the most recent fighters yet you accuse others of being biased towards old-timers. Pot, kettle, black anyone? The fact that you continue to make your assertions in the face of clear evidence to the contrary leads me to believe that you hold your views as a tenent of faith; which makes you a KoolAid drinker to the cult of "Progress" and "Modernity". As with every true believer in such ideology, debating you is a pointless exercise: No matter how often you're proven wrong you will cling to your orthadoxy with all the ferver of a Mecca pilgrim. Since debating you is, in fact, a pointless exercise, the only thing you're good for is to serve as example of how to make a fool of one's self Have a nice day!

Poet

[JAB5239]

which is why i gave foreman a chance against pre steward wlad.you failed to mention that lamon brewester took a hell of a beating in that fight.a beating which frazier couldnt have took.

Couldn't or wouldn't have took?

and corrie sanders is also close to 6'5 while brewster is 6'2.both well taller than frazier,and better chinned.and brewster caught a terrible beatdown in the rematch

How was sanders better chinned than Frazier? And you forgot to mention Brewster had just come back from eye surgery in the second fight and was never really a world beater to begin with.

[StarshipTrooper]

How was sanders better chinned than Frazier? And you forgot to mention Brewster had just come back from eye surgery in the second fight and was never really a world beater to begin with.

Not to mention Brewster came into the rematch with Wlad grossly out of shape and only looking for a quick paycheck.

Poet

[r.burgundy]

While I can't to your age you're living proof that ******ity has no age bounderies.

There is no debate going on: They are making valid points while you're making an ass out of yourself. Cases in point: You're obsessed with weight and height, and in addition to assuming that bigger is always better you also assume newer is always better. This shows a clear bias towards the most recent fighters yet you accuse others of being biased towards old-timers. Pot, kettle, black anyone? The fact that you continue to make your assertions in the face of clear evidence to the contrary leads me to believe that you hold your views as a tenent of faith; which makes you a KoolAid drinker to the cult of "Progress" and "Modernity". As with every true believer in such ideology, debating you is a pointless exercise: No matter how often you're proven wrong you will cling to your orthadoxy with all the ferver of a Mecca pilgrim. Since debating you is, in fact, a pointless exercise, the only thing you're good for is to serve as example of how to make a fool of one's self Have a nice day!

Poet

1st off were dealing with a fantasy matchup of klitschos vs frazier.so do you understand the meaning of the word opinion lol?

only facts we have are that the 1 big puncher with height joe faced,he got mangled.that is a fact.george foreman has a 83% ko ratio while vlad is at 85 an vital is at 90 so even if you still want to kling to the notion that george hit harder,you can at least admit they are in the same ballpark

im not obessed with weight and height at all.again were talking about how frazier would do agianst 2 6'7 guys with extreme power.fact is,the 6'4 gu with extreme power and less skills decapitated him.it wasnt a close fight,and george was the only guy he fought with a ko ratio of over 80.thats a fact

so playing statistics,theres a better chance of frazier getting stopped than 1)stopping a guy who has never been stopped in vitali,or 2)stopping a guy who hasnt come close to being stopped after steward.and as a side bar,sanders is 6'5 and had a ratio in the 90's when he fought wlad,as did brewster

so please show me what clear evidence as you put it is there for talking about a fantasy matchup lol.i'll wait

please tell me where somebody has proven me wrong on anything.i'll wait lol

your 41 years old an name calling on a boxing forum lol.i guess your a perfect model of intelligence lol.hang it up pops

[r.burgundy]

How was sanders better chinned than Frazier? And you forgot to mention Brewster had just come back from eye surgery in the second fight and was never really a world beater to begin with.

how can we honestly measure fraziers chin when the only puncher he fought demolished him?

[r.burgundy]

Not to mention Brewster came into the rematch with Wlad grossly out of shape and only looking for a quick paycheck.

Poet

brewster was grossly outta shape now lmao.he weighed in a grand total of 2lbs heavier.226 in fight 1 and 228 and fight 2,and there was nothing wrong with his physique.watch the fights before making your ignorant statements.brewseter was outta shape lol.i done heard it all