Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[Ivich]

Mathis was not up on the scorecards against Frazier, let's squash that silly lie.
From Frazier's record on Box rec.

	Madison Square Garden, New York	W-TKO	11/15		event bout score wiki
2:33 ref: Arthur Mercante 5-5 Tony Castellano 7-2 Jack Gordon 6-4

Frazier and Mathis fought on the double header of the New Garden with Griffith and Benvenuti.Mathis was unranked by the Ring and only a cursory look at his record indicates he had no business fighting for a title.
His resume was padded with the usual suspects,ham and eggers, and no hopers.His best win a decison over Chuvalo.
Both Frazier and Ali were in their 20's for FOTC Ali was 29 and had 18 rds of action in the previous 4 years.Ali without that enforced hiatus beats Frazier,imo as he did in their subsequent 2 fights.
Frazier was also 29 when Foreman turned him into a yo, yo.
Frazier won FOTC no argument about that,-------but
Frazier spent nearly a month is the hospital after that fight, Ali an hour for a XRay so who whipped whose ass?

Frazier has one of the best wins ever on his resume ,and some solid victories over contenders like Quarry,Ellis,and Bonavena.
He also held the title hostage for 2 years,defending against 2 unranked journeymen,that adversely affected his legacy ,imo

Smokin Joe was a great fighter and a fine man, but he never faced class modern sized men that could both box and hit like the Klits.

Is he greater than the Bros?IMO Yes
Does he beat them ?IMO No

Frazier and Mathis were pretty even over the first 6 rounds after which Frazier gradually pulled away.Mathis was never in front.

It always amazes me why posters lie so often and so blatantly.

I suppose it becomes second nature to them and the facts eventually get blurred or forgotten altogether?.We've had a few weeks of Jack Johnson bashing,followed by a post saying Louis was miles behind against Conn and needed a ko to win,and that his chin was crap.
2:58 ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7
2 good last rounds could have seen Louis get a draw

Schmeling needed a ton of right hands to stop Louis, and Marciano just stopped the relic that was once the Brown Bomber.Nobody else managed to keep him down for a 10 count.
Louis fought sluggers.big punchers,cuties, and stylists.

I'm amazed that with all his supposed negatives only 3 men managed to beat him and two of those achieved in when he was past prime.

Absurd statements like he avoided Maxie Rosenbloom belong in comic books.
Now the other hobby horse, **** on Joe Frazier .
Frazier had a heart as big as a building and always gave 100%.
He owns possibly the greatest single win of any heavyweight.

I think the Klits beat him, but as warriors they are not in the same ball park as him.

[Dr. Z]

Frazier and Mathis were pretty even over the first 6 rounds after which Frazier gradually pulled away.Mathis was never in front.

It always amazes me why posters lie so often and so blatantly.

I suppose it becomes second nature to them and the facts eventually get blurred or forgotten altogether?.We've had a few weeks of Jack Johnson bashing,followed by a post saying Louis was miles behind against Conn and needed a ko to win,and that his chin was crap.
2:58 ref: Eddie Joseph 5-7 Bill Healy 6-6 Marty Monroe 4-7
2 good last rounds could have seen Louis get a draw

Schmeling needed a ton of right hands to stop Louis, and Marciano just stopped the relic that was once the Brown Bomber.Nobody else managed to keep him down for a 10 count.
Louis fought sluggers.big punchers,cuties, and stylists.

I'm amazed that with all his supposed negatives only 3 men managed to beat him and two of those achieved in when he was past prime.

Absurd statements like he avoided Maxie Rosenbloom belong in comic books.
Now the other hobby horse, **** on Joe Frazier .
Frazier had a heart as big as a building and always gave 100%.
He owns possibly the greatest single win of any heavyweight.

I think the Klits beat him, but as warriors they are not in the same ball park as him.

Um, stop with the mis truths. Anyone who has seen the fight knows Frazier won the 9th and 10th so heck yes he was behind on or even with Mathis prior to the 9th round. That is the truth. I find you inaccurate at best or lying at worst.

Let's keep other fights other if this thread, you had your chance to spew forth BS in them. And try directly quote and reply to what I someone-else says, instead of directly quoting your self. Seriously who does that?

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=them_apples;n31640017]

in Joe Fraziers book, this was his description of their friendship. Mathis was talented and didn't care enough, wanted to just go out and party, have fun. Wladmir has struggled or lost against much lesser fighters, not sure where you are getting the impression that Wlad is so skillful and dangerous, absolutely nothing on his resume would state this. I'd be much more inclined to pick Vitali over Mathis, which I think he would win - I see Mathis as a better fighter than Wlad but with a poor work ethic. We have seen Wlad get slept and struggle hard against very basic competition, I don't even see that intangible that when the going get's tough Wlad turns it up. HE DOESN'T. he just plays within the zone of competition he can beat and loses whenever the kitchen heats up a bit too much.

If you are comparing physiques, then yes Wlad wins of course. That seems to be what most people do in fantasy fights though, and when a contemporary obese fighter like Andy Ruiz shows up and sleeps the worlds champ - he falls into the category of an anomaly. Then when Tyson Fury, a man with a dad bod and low muscle mass proportionately starts embarassing similar competition that Wlad would have fought he's "special".

Mathis is 6 ft 4 and fat. he's the perfect build for someone campaigning today

- - Shaddup and maybe more folk to think more highly of U.

Wlad the only fighter to ever challenge the Joe Louis record in the heavy division.

Buster, bless him, was never destined to have a long life or great boxing accolades, but when he fought Ali he made Ali look like the Shyte of Whyte, an embarrassment after Joe knocked him out.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n31641248]

- - Shaddup and maybe more folk to think more highly of U.

Wlad the only fighter to ever challenge the Joe Louis record in the heavy division.

Buster, bless him, was never destined to have a long life or great boxing accolades, but when he fought Ali he made Ali look like the Shyte of Whyte, an embarrassment after Joe knocked him out.

Over two title reigns. Holmes had 20 straight defenses.

[Willow The Wisp]

The wins are there. Can't take those away from any of these professional grade warriors.
But we cannot overlook the losses. As these provide us the insight to conclude the conversation, at least for me.
Smoking Joe lost only to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. And those fights made both Ali and Foreman two of the half dozen or so best heavyweights in history.
The Klitschko Brothers dropped fights to Chris Byrd, final fight Lennox Lewis, Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders, Lamon Brewster, Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua.

[Dr. Z]

The wins are there. Can't take those away from any of these professional grade warriors.
But we cannot overlook the losses. As these provide us the insight to conclude the conversation, at least for me.
Smoking Joe lost only to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. And those fights made both Ali and Foreman two of the half dozen or so best heavyweights in history.
The Klitschko Brothers dropped fights to Chris Byrd, final fight Lennox Lewis, Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders, Lamon Brewster, Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua.

Yes, but Frazier himself lost 4 times and drew once in far less fights. Had he fought more often or fought better competition during his career he is losing more often. Even Ali lost to Spinks, and Berbic. The man lost five times and was lucky on the cards Vs Jimmy Young. In fact lucky vs Kenny Norton too in their third fight. Foremen also lost five times too. Not listing all the names, but you get the picture.

[Ivich]

The wins are there. Can't take those away from any of these professional grade warriors.
But we cannot overlook the losses. As these provide us the insight to conclude the conversation, at least for me.
Smoking Joe lost only to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. And those fights made both Ali and Foreman two of the half dozen or so best heavyweights in history.
The Klitschko Brothers dropped fights to Chris Byrd, final fight Lennox Lewis, Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders, Lamon Brewster, Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua.

Frazier lost 4 times to 2 all time greats.

He gave the consensus all time no 1, 3 great fights,and had to be rescued against the thunderous hitting Foreman because he refused to quit Anyone put Brewster,Purity,Sanders in that category?

A nearly 38years old Frazier 20 odd lbs over his best weight came out of a 5 1/2years retirement and struggled to draw with Jumbo Cummings so lets dump on him for that.

I can't directly engage with these," people ,"it leaves such a nasty taste in my mouth.

[QueensburyRules]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;n31641259]

Over two title reigns. Holmes had 20 straight defenses.

- - Single belt holder in a multibelt division where he title record against standing fighters having won their title in the ring is 0-6, 0 KOs.

Thanks for U gift that keeps on giving!

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n31641639]

- - Single belt holder in a multibelt division where he title record against standing fighters having won their title in the ring is 0-6, 0 KOs.

Thanks for U gift that keeps on giving!

Lineal and Ring champion. End of debate, Turd gobbler.

[Willow The Wisp]

Frazier lost 4 times to 2 all time greats.

He gave the consensus all time no 1, 3 great fights,and had to be rescued against the thunderous hitting Foreman because he refused to quit Anyone put Brewster,Purity,Sanders in that category?

A nearly 38years old Frazier 20 odd lbs over his best weight came out of a 5 1/2years retirement and struggled to draw with Jumbo Cummings so lets dump on him for that.

I can't directly engage with these," people ,"it leaves such a nasty taste in my mouth.

I'll call it. Ivich W 15 over Dr. Z.
You can't win em all Doc, that's tha way of the world.

And as a finishing blow, Jumbo Cummings beats some of those guys who got over on the Prime time Klitschko brothers. Lol. Butterbean Esch won allot of fights too.