Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[Dr. Z]

You believe 18 rounds of combat in 4 years was a sufficient to prepare and condition Ali to face the undefeated no 1 man Frazier?
I profoundly disagree.
Ali spent huge periods of the fight on the ropes or in corners,you may say he did so because Frazier made him do it?
I say he did it because he didn't trust either his legs or his stamina after such a long lay off.Jose Torres agreed with me.
I dont rate FOTC as one of Ali's great performances ,as far as skill are concerned,it certainly is from a courage point of view,he was out on his feet in the 11th.
If your opinion is correct,why didn't Frazier win the 2 subsequent fights?
Dont tell me,Frazier, at 29 was terminally damaged and a shell of the fighter he had been for those bouts.
Yet he looked just the same Smoking Joe against Quarry in their second fight?
If Frazier was so badly depleted by FOTC ,how did he produce such a great fight against Ali nearly 5 years later ?
How was that possible?
IMO The best Ali always beats the best Frazier,but it would never be easy.

Both Klits beat Joe, both are too big and hit too hard for him.

Frazier never faced that combination of size,skill, and power.

Personally I'd rather watch Frazier any day of the week,but I'm picking with my head ,not my heart here.

Seldom do I agree with Ivich but this is one time I do. Frazier never did well vs punchers and never beat men have the skills and power the Klitschko's do. Frazier is great at beating smaller lighter hitting men though.

[QueensburyRules]

Seldom do I agree with Ivich but this is one time I do. Frazier never did well vs punchers and never beat men have the skills and power the Klitschko's do. Frazier is great at beating smaller lighter hitting men though.

- - BTFO Cus trained supersized lightning combination puncher Buster Mathias specifically to usurp Ali before his suspension.

Cus also trained Wilt for the same Ali purpose that resulted in the infamous duck of Wilt on national TV by Ali.

Joe was the right man, the right fighter, in the perfect right time to explode the myth of Ali as Cus and Wilt had previously done.

[Dr. Z]

- - BTFO Cus trained supersized lightning combination puncher Buster Mathias specifically to usurp Ali before his suspension.

Cus also trained Wilt for the same Ali purpose that resulted in the infamous duck of Wilt on national TV by Ali.

Joe was the right man, the right fighter, in the perfect right time to explode the myth of Ali as Cus and Wilt had previously done.

I know that, but did you know this? The fat Buster Mathis was actually in the lead way though the fight on Frazier until Joe finally caught up to him. Mathis wasn't in the same zip code in Kiltschko's in size, power, or boxing ability. Yet he was doing just fine until Frazier caught him in the 11th.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Jo..._Buster_Mathis

[dreamroom]

They are mechanical and slow. And Wlad has a poor chin. Smoke would spark Wlad and I reckon wear Vitali down. Joe had a solid chin, awesome heart and great tenacity.

Forman was slow. He knocked Joe out twice. I think Joe would have a better chance against Wlad than Vitali. Of course, he has a punchers chance against both. Vitali faced 2 similar fighting styles in Chisora and Sanders, who had forward moving pressure styles, especially Chisora who threw wide looping hooks from a crouch like Frazier. I would give Joe a 50/50 chance against both Klitchkos.

[dreamroom]

- - The Ks are the best "distance" fighters in history who introduced the Big Man style meant to accentuate their size and strength, so in that regard they are in the savant class as well.

I would include Emanuel Steward as well in perfecting the "fighting tall" style. I think he got Wlad over that hump from being a good fighter, to being a great one.

[QueensburyRules]

I would include Emanuel Steward as well in perfecting the "fighting tall" style. I think he got Wlad over that hump from being a good fighter, to being a great one.

- - Manny perfected Lewie who could never get over the hump of Vitali who used his ama trainer.

[Willow The Wisp]

I know that, but did you know this? The fat Buster Mathis was actually in the lead way though the fight on Frazier until Joe finally caught up to him. Mathis wasn't in the same zip code in Kiltschko's in size, power, or boxing ability. Yet he was doing just fine until Frazier caught him in the 11th.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Jo..._Buster_Mathis

What's fat got to to with anything? Reminds me of Eddie Hearn when selecting Ruiz as a Big Baby Miller replacement. Meh. Buster Mathis = or > Pele Reid, Chris Byrd, Lamon Brewster, possibly even Corrie Sanders.......Ross Purity???
While I'm being annoying anyway, Here's my best QueensburyRules imitation: U letter git lost in the mail if U zip codes be wrong.

[Willow The Wisp]

That's fine we can disagree,and no doubt will again!

Ya man.

[them_apples]

I know that, but did you know this? The fat Buster Mathis was actually in the lead way though the fight on Frazier until Joe finally caught up to him. Mathis wasn't in the same zip code in Kiltschko's in size, power, or boxing ability. Yet he was doing just fine until Frazier caught him in the 11th.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Jo..._Buster_Mathis

This one won't work, Mathis is more skillful than both Klitschkos, what he doesn't have is work ethic and they do. Mathis never got anywhere because of this. So him hanging in until the 11th with Joe, especially having fought and sparred together before makes a lot of sense. In fact Mathis going the distance would have made a lot of sense as well, as the story goes he gave up his gold medal because he didn't care, and Joe moved in as the second best. Mathis idea was that he was the more talented fighter he just didn't care enough.

Wladmir is very textbook, Vitali is naturally stronger and tougher chinned and also slightly more skillful. I don't know what the debate is between the 2, because Vitali is leagues better than Wlad.

[Ivich]

This one won't work, Mathis is more skillful than both Klitschkos, what he doesn't have is work ethic and they do. Mathis never got anywhere because of this. So him hanging in until the 11th with Joe, especially having fought and sparred together before makes a lot of sense. In fact Mathis going the distance would have made a lot of sense as well, as the story goes he gave up his gold medal because he didn't care, and Joe moved in as the second best. Mathis idea was that he was the more talented fighter he just didn't care enough.

Wladmir is very textbook, Vitali is naturally stronger and tougher chinned and also slightly more skillful. I don't know what the debate is between the 2, because Vitali is leagues better than Wlad.

Mathis had fast hands, rather like Tony Tubbs,I don't think he had more skills than Wlad who I think was the better boxer of the two brothers ,just my opinion.
Vitali was certainly the more natural fighter and by far the more durable . Both would have beaten Mathis. without much trouble.

Frazier was a grinder he rarely took out anyone of any class with one shot.

Who was the best man he actually ko'd for the count?
Ex Lhvy Doug Jones.
I don't like his chances with either of the Klits,but he is certainly much more eye friendly to watch!