Joe Frazier beats both Klitschkos

[QueensburyRules]

Frazier chin was suspect vs punchers. Foreman bounced him up and down like a basket ball and he was floored 2x and would have lost on the ten point must system to Bonevena. Those are the two best punchers Frazier fought. He did not meet not meet Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle or Cooney... the punchers who IMO, would have tested that chin.

Wlad is so skilled and keeps his feet moving. He does not stand there and trade. If needed he can clinch better than Ali and put his weight down vs the 205 pound Frazier like he did to Povetkin. The height, reach and weight levels here are great and Wlad doesn't get hit by the hook often due to his stance / guard and keeping ideal range. He also has power like Foreman. I think either can win, but Wlad is more likely to land first and his arsenal is more versatile.

Frazier struggled on film and as down on points to the larger KO and fat Buster Mathis. I'd pick Wlad via KO here.


Fraziers chances are even less vs Vitali who owns all time chin, hits harder than anyone Frazier beat, and moves around even better than Wlad. He is a fair in fighter and good counter puncher as well. You not going catch him standing around in a corner either, which is where Frazier would need to be facing him.

Frazier lacks the height and reach, and is rather limited left hook only type of fighter who has no jab or uppercut, Or right hand worth something. To be sure he will be pounded in the center of the ring. He would need to get very close to hit Vitali and navigating the distance for him would prove costly. Vitali wins via TKO

Frazier matches up best vs small boxer types or heavyweight with mediocre power. The Klitschko's are neither.

- - The Ks are the best "distance" fighters in history who introduced the Big Man style meant to accentuate their size and strength, so in that regard they are in the savant class as well.

[markusmod]

Its funny right now it seems the USA has no president. Just a puppet king lol

We need a president like Rockin. He would put things in perspective.

[Ivich]

If those two fights happened,I wonder how many would actually bet on Frazier?
I think he loses to both.

I've just seen this comment by a poster,
"Those are the two best punchers Frazier fought. He did not meet not meet Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle or Cooney."Dr Z


Frazier retired after he stoppage loss to Foreman on June 15th 1976.

.Cooney had his first pro fight on the 5th of Feb 1977!

Frazier can be said not to have fought,Liston,Norton,Shavers, or Lyle, but there is no justification for including Cooney among the punchers he did not fight!

Frazier made a one fight comeback on 3rd Dec 1981 scraping a fortunate draw against Jumbo Cummings.
That year Cooney took out what was left of Ken Norton in one round.
Anyone suggesting Frazier made his comeback after a four and a half years hiatus against Cooney would be locked up!

NB The two gibberish, hysterical posts below this have no relevance to the
fact that Frazier was retired before Cooney began his pro career.

[Dr. Z]

I've just seen this comment by a poster,
"Those are the two best punchers Frazier fought. He did not meet not meet Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle or Cooney."Dr Z


Frazier retired after he stoppage loss to Foreman on June 15th 1976.

.Cooney had his first pro fight on the 5th of Feb 1977!

Frazier can be said not to have fought,Liston,Norton,Shavers, or Lyle, but there is no justification for including Cooney among the punchers he did not fight!

Frazier made a one fight comeback on 3rd Dec 1981 scraping a fortunate draw against Jumbo Cummings.
That year Cooney took out what was left of Ken Norton in one round.
Anyone suggesting Frazier made his comeback after a four and a half years hiatus against Cooney would be locked up!

Coming form a man who has put together posts of Frazier not fighting punchers this is rich!

Yes, Frazier could have fought Liston, his own people were wary of him.

He could have fought Shavers, Norton, and Lyle who were big punchers when he was active but did not instead settling for smaller non puncher types and giving title shots to guys rated outside out of the top 20 like Daniels and Stander. Stander buckled Frazier knees with one of the few punches he landed by the way. Frazier deserves to be blasted for doing this, giving two lineal title shot to men like this? I can understand one but two back to back?

Cooney was known as golden glove champion and a fighter Ali avoided in his decline ( Cooney's management offered talks for this fights but in this case you right, he really did not have time nor was Cooney ranked than to fight him.

Should I really post what your said in the past about Frazier not facing punchers? It's a thing you agreed on with me. It seems like your disagreeing with me on Frazier not facing puchers now.

Well...your move Mcvey er Ivich ,

[Dr. Z]

I've just seen this comment by a poster,
"Those are the two best punchers Frazier fought. He did not meet not meet Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle or Cooney."Dr Z


Frazier retired after he stoppage loss to Foreman on June 15th 1976.

.Cooney had his first pro fight on the 5th of Feb 1977!

,Frazier can be said not to have fought,Liston,Norton Shavers, or Lyle, but there is no justification for including Cooney among the punchers he did not fight!

Frazier made a one fight comeback on 3rd Dec 1981 scraping a fortunate draw against Jumbo Cummings.
That year Cooney took out what was left of Ken Norton in one round.
Anyone suggesting Frazier made his comeback after a four and a half years hiatus against Cooney would be locked up!

You wrote the following:

1. mcvey, Jun 20, 2015
   #21
2. mcveyObsessed with BoxingFull Member
   
   1970
   Liston was no8 ,Mac Foster no5.
   
   Frazier fought Jimmy Ellis and Bob Foster.
   1971
   Mac Foster no5
   Frazier fought Muhammad Ali.
   
   1972
   Lyle no4
   Frazier fought Tery Daniels and Ron Stander.
   
   
   1973
   Lyle no4, Shavers no6 .
   
   Frazier fought George Foreman & Joe Bugner.
   
   
   1974
   
   Lyle no3, Frazier no 2
   Frazier fought Ali and Jerry Quarry.
   
   
   
   
   1975
   Lyle no5, Shavers no6, Frazier no 3.
   By the end of1975 Lyle had been rated in the top 5 for 4 consecutive years .
   
   
   
   
   In 1968
   Liston was no5,Frazier no1.
   Frazier fought Buster Mathis ,Manuel Ramos
   ,Oscar Bonavena.
   
   1969
   Foster was no5, Liston no6 ,Frazier no1.
   
   Frazier fought,Dave Zyglewicz & Jerry Quarry.
   These fights, and the timing of them will possibly be interpreted differently by each individual.

>>> Wow sounds like Frazer could have fought them. Nice job by the way with the timelines.

[StarshipTrooper]

We need a president like Rockin. He would put things in perspective.

We need Rockin' like we need a collective outbreak of *********. In any sane society, Rockin' gets the wall.

[Willow The Wisp]

I'm leaving Left v. Right politics alone on this Forum, and I'm not interfering with Dr Z and Ivich hashing out their objectives. But several times I’ve noted Buster Mathis brought up in disparaging ways. Whatever Andy Ruiz Jr could do, the light on his feet Bus could equal.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm leaving Left v. Right politics alone on this Forum, and I'm not interfering with Dr Z and Ivich hashing out their objectives. But several times I’ve noted Buster Mathis brought up in disparaging ways. Whatever Andy Ruiz Jr could do, the light on his feet Bus could equal.

- - Buster, bless him as a good man of his times found by Cus and given a chance would melt against the AJ that Ruiz KOed.

Back story of that fight is AJ KOed in sparring complicated by Big Baby arguably the biggest proven drug cheat in history necessitating Blubber, Deyonce, Ortiz, Kownacki, The Shyte of Whyte, and a couple other who escape my memory ducking a career purse vs AJ.

Fat Andy one week off a strong win emailed Hearn to say he would make the scratch line for a record purse and the rest is history.

Never forget the shame of heavywt boxing today and never forget that Fat Andy was the only Man among boys willing to fight the formidable juggernaut of AJ.

[Rosco3387]

This is a hard fight to pick. I probably would go with Vitalie beating Joe and Joe beating Vlad... Though my opinion on this fight series is fluid. Heres the problem: Vlad's supposed transformation, code name for grab and tie up rinse and repeat, was never really tried against a guy who would pressure like Joe. Sanders, a hard cracking southpaw himself, really had no problems with Vlad and Vlad never showed the capacity to avenge this loss. I think Frazier gets to Vlad.

Vitalie is tougher and was himself a hard puncher, I see him assuming the role of "Puncher" a la Foreman in this match up. That makes me think he takes it. either brother fought guys who pressured like Frazier though...

[markusmod]

We need Rockin' like we need a collective outbreak of *********. In any sane society, Rockin' gets the wall.

Rockin still has the fight with Siablo ahead of him.