George Foreman, the Man who made the man that is falsely proclaimed as the man in box

[hellfire508]

When was Ali's prime? no doubt the fight that made his career was the win over foreman that was in 1974, so you should say 1974 was his prime. His win over Liston is overrated because Liston was all f***ed up when they fought and took a dive in one of the fights. . If Muhammad Ali never beat Foreman he would be regarded so much lower. He lost to Leon Spinks in Spinks's 8th professional fight 5 months after Ali won a UD over Shavers. He lost to Ken Norton in 1971, got his jaw broken in that fight. And Ken Norton was a nobody before he fought Ali, the guy he fought before fighting ALi was 22-8 and so were all the opponents Norton had fought up to that point. His only notable win besides beating ALi was stopping Jerry Quarrey.

Beating Foreman is what made ALI be able to say "I am the greatest" He just had the right game plan and style to beat Foreman.

Foreman made Norton and Frazier and Lyle look like nothing while 2 of those guys beat Ali in his prime. Foreman knocked Norton out in 2. Knocked Frazier down 5 times etc....
Ali basically got lucky against Foreman, if they ever rematched Foreman would have beaten his ass. Ali's mind games got to him and fighting in Africa was kinda a freak thing that might have screwed Georges psyche up.

Foreman KO'd Ron Lyle in 5 while Ali was loosing his fight against Lyle until Ali got a gift premature stoppage, the ref stopped the fight just because Ali flurried basically it was one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen, if the ref was honest Lyle would have went on to beat Ali. The win over Lyle is one Ali's biggest wins, and he did not deserve to win that fight. And of course look how much Ali struggled with Frazier but Foreman obliterated him.


George Foreman is better than Ali, George Foreman made Ali, George Foreman is the real greatest of the 70's. George Foreman is the man who made the man who you proclaim falsely as being the man in boxing.

Muhammad Ali's prime was against Williams, Folley and Terrell - and would have continued into 68, 69. And no - Muhammad Ali is greater than George Foreman. I shall prove you wrong:

Here are the fighters Ali beat:
Joe Frazier x2
Sonny Liston x2
GEORGE FOREMAN
Jerry Quarry x2
Ken Norton x2
Floyd Patterson x2
Cleveland Williams
Zora Folley
Ron Lyle
Archie Moore
Henry Cooper x2
George Chuvalo x2
Ernie Terrell
Jimmy Ellis
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Joe Bugner x2
Bob Foster

That is pure class that list. The best resume EVER.

Foreman's big names:

Joe Frazier x2
George Chuvalo
Ken Norton
Ron Lyle
Gerry Cooney
Michael Moorer

Firstly - you are a ******. You claim Liston was all "f**ked up" against Ali - yet you use Leon Spinks as an argument against Ali? You are a loser. Sonny Liston just came off huge first round knockouts of Floyd Patterson, who is a top 20 heavyweight. Liston was very close to prime. He looked bad against Ali because Ali made him look bad. The pure speed and agility was too much for Liston. The second fight may have been a dive - big deal. Ali wrecked him in the first.

As for Ken Norton - Norton was all wrong for Ali. He was the perfect fighter to trouble Ali. He applied pressure with an awkward style - and came in with the jab. If Ali didn't get his jaw broken - he would have won. He was too cautious to hit, because he feared getting hit in the jaw. Even so - Ali lost. But he was past his prime. His prime was 66-7.

You say that Ali beat Foreman because of styles, yet you refuse to acknowledge styles for Foreman's victories over Norton and Frazier. He was the hardest hitter ever, and Frazier and glass-chinned Norton were tailor made for Foreman. Ali still beat each of them 2 out of 3 - past his prime.

You say Foreman made Lyle look like nothing? WTF? LYle knocked Foreman down! Twice! Ali's fight with Lyle - was infact past his prime - and was bascially even before the stoppage. Oh, and Ali WON the fight because he STOPPEP Lyle! Trailing on the cards is totally irrelevant!

You also refuse to acknowledge that ALi beat Young, whereas Foreman lost to Young. Ali was shot. Foreman was past his mental prime.

My conclusion: Look at the resumes - Ali was greater. He sacrificed his prime- and is still the greatest heavyweight in history. Also - from you post - it is clear you know nothing about boxing.

[hellfire508]

LOL at the title of this thread. Muhammad Ali, actually Cassius Clay in his prime is the GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EVA!!!

If you called Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay" in his prime - he would have torn you to shreads in the ring. AKA Patterson and Terrell. Ali was not quite prime against Liston. He changed his name after this fight.

[hellfire508]

of course foreman was better, if ali dare to open for 1 full round foreman would ko him but he didnt he was too smart for foreman. but i think the 60s ali would dance away and be too fast for foreman.

LMAO! Foreman KO ALi in one round if he were to "open for 1 full round"? MY god! Someone needs to educate you people. Watch round 1 of Zaire, Ali fought toe-to-toe basically the entire round. Landing straight right hands at will. He won the round.

[KidBlackie]

Here are the fighters Ali beat:
Joe Frazier x2
Sonny Liston x2
GEORGE FOREMAN
Jerry Quarry x2
Ken Norton x2
Floyd Patterson x2
Cleveland Williams
Zora Folley
Ron Lyle
Archie Moore
Henry Cooper x2
George Chuvalo x2
Ernie Terrell
Jimmy Ellis
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Joe Bugner x2
Bob Foster

That is pure class that list. The best resume EVER.

Foreman's big names:

Joe Frazier x2
George Chuvalo
Ken Norton
Ron Lyle
Gerry Cooney
Michael Moorer

Firstly - you are a ******. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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Whooooooeeey, boy I used to work in a psychiatric residential facility for ******ed children, and their favorite epithet hurled at each other was "******."

I understand you were responding to someone overplaying their Foreman hand, but your Ali list is utterly ridiculous. Archie Moore? Damn near 50 yrs old in his 2nd to last fight? Cleveland Williams? Cooper? The same Cooper who never got a sniff of a title shot until he KOed young Clay in a fight Dundee pulled a sleight of hand in?

Well, obviously you hate Foreman, either that or see my opening statement! Foreman as a novice beat the hell out of the experienced Chuck Wepner who Ali chose to defend his title against. Wepner made Ali look like crap and was certainly a grade above 50 yr old Archie Moore. Gregario Peralta was as tough as they come with 99 career victories. Certainly a much bigger challenge for young Foreman than old Williams who literally had to climb off his death bed for a fight against Ali. Like Wepner, Foreman easily disposed of Ledoux before Ledoux got a title shot against Holmes.

Why didn't you include Schultz? Cooper damn near upset Holy for a title. Qawi gave Holy and Spinks hell.

"Spinking" of Spinks, let's talk about the "other" Spinks, Leon. You didn't include Leon on great Ali victories. After all, Leon is the most inexperienced undisputed heavyweight champ in history! Of course it's only fair to claim Spinks as a bookend to Liston in two of Sonny's most shameful fights ever. Damn, you forgot Cosell!

Ali the best resume ever? Yeah, in Ali LA-LA Land.

[hellfire508]

Actually - George Foreman is my second favourite heavyweight ever. Owned.

Now - Please name the heavyweight with a better resume than Ali. I'll wait for you. I don't know any others that went 11-2-0 against hall of famers. I named the likes of Williams and Moore because they were big names. They were past their best, but they are big names. That aside - Ali beat 3 top 10 heavyweights, plus 2 other top 25 heavyweights. No-one else has come close.

[hellfire508]

Williams had to climb off his death bed? LOL. He was shot in 1965, and was inactive for that year. He came back and was 5-0 before facing Ali. I KNOW he was a shell of what he was - but he was a very dangerous fighter still. Peralta is not worth mentioning to be honest. He was nothing special at all. Everytime he stepped up he lost, and was knocked out by the likes of Mauro Mina.

Oh, and Chuck Wepner was a total journeyman who was nothing. Ali defended his title against him, yes. And?

How the hell did Cooper nearly beat Holyfield? He floored him - but got his ass handed to him. That's like saying Hurtardo nearly beat Tszyu.

Schultz was nothing special. Good fighter, but not up there with the likes of a Terrell, Williams, Bugner etc.

Qawi was a great fighter. I should have mentioned him. My mistake.

What are you talking about with Spinks? That is like counting Marciano for Louis. Everyone knows he was shot. He was there for money, and because he loved the sport so much. He was showing early signs of motor skills deterioration - aka parkinsons.

[hellfire508]

Who is the hater here? "Cooper KO'd Ali". WTF? He floored Ali with a mint left hook on the chin. Ali was up by 3, and walked to his corner. Watch the FULL fight - you will see that Dundee who HELPED the split along, gained approximately 20 seconds. And 1.5 minutes later - Cooper's face was in ribbons and the fight was over.

[Da Iceman]

you can just go on and on and on about nothing

[KidBlackie]

[[[[Now - Please name the heavyweight with a better resume than Ali. I'll wait for you. I don't know any others that went 11-2-0 against hall of famers. I named the likes of Williams and Moore because they were big names.]]]]]
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Sure, JOE LOUIS, and I don't need 3 posts of nonsense like you do.

Ali was 11-3 against HOF fighters, not 11-2. Joe was 9-3, but Joe never got beat up by Leon Spinks either and has a better record and title record. The fact that you compare a fight with Leon to a fight with Marciano shows just how far you're sunk up Ali's bum.

And yeah, Moore was a big name, WAS being the operative word when Ali fought him, and NO, Williams was never that big of a name and no, NOBODY expected him to have a chance against Ali. Fact is that was a weak time in heavyweight boxing and Williams needed a paycheck so I don't begrudge Ali, but it was a joke fight. Now come on back and crack some more jokes about Ali. Funny fellow!

[butterfly1964]

[[[[Now - Please name the heavyweight with a better resume than Ali. I'll wait for you. I don't know any others that went 11-2-0 against hall of famers. I named the likes of Williams and Moore because they were big names.]]]]]
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Sure, JOE LOUIS, and I don't need 3 posts of nonsense like you do.

Ali was 11-3 against HOF fighters, not 11-2. Joe was 9-3, but Joe never got beat up by Leon Spinks either and has a better record and title record. The fact that you compare a fight with Leon to a fight with Marciano shows just how far you're sunk up Ali's bum.

And yeah, Moore was a big name, WAS being the operative word when Ali fought him, and NO, Williams was never that big of a name and no, NOBODY expected him to have a chance against Ali. Fact is that was a weak time in heavyweight boxing and Williams needed a paycheck so I don't begrudge Ali, but it was a joke fight. Now come on back and crack some more jokes about Ali. Funny fellow!

name the hall of famers louis beat.