How high do you rank Larry Holmes in your all time rankings

[JAB5239]

- - Big Jess intimidate em. He's massive, stronger, and infinitely tougher and less fragile than Cooney who could've had a successful WBA career.

Jess a cowboy brought up hard in Indian Territories, not some candy inner city ****** kid turning to boxing. How many in Lar era could turn pro age 29 without boxing mentoring and do what Jess did?

Lar had tutoring by Dundee and Ali and needed 6 years worth of the most hopeless no hopers imaginable before he caught up to anyone of significance and certainly never caught on with the people until perhaps Cooney in that regrettable King promotion.

Good for him for turning pro at 29. I still see nothing special about him. He beat an old and unmotivated Johnson, that's it. Who else did he beat of note? Like I said, I'd pick every guy I named against him. He just wasn't very talented. I will give him credit for toughness, but that can get you seriously hurt if you don't have the skill to back it up.....and Willard didnt.

[StarshipTrooper]

Good for him for turning pro at 29. I still see nothing special about him. He beat an old and unmotivated Johnson, that's it. Who else did he beat of note? Like I said, I'd pick every guy I named against him. He just wasn't very talented. I will give him credit for toughness, but that can get you seriously hurt if you don't have the skill to back it up.....and Willard didnt.

I see Queenie finally let slip with the whyte supremacist shlt. You'd figured he'd have learned to hide that a long time ago

[QueensburyRules]

Good for him for turning pro at 29. I still see nothing special about him. He beat an old and unmotivated Johnson, that's it. Who else did he beat of note? Like I said, I'd pick every guy I named against him. He just wasn't very talented. I will give him credit for toughness, but that can get you seriously hurt if you don't have the skill to back it up.....and Willard didnt.

- - Always figured U a Noob at heart.

JJ fought at a good hard pace going for the KO for 26 blistering rounds. U not very smart, but I give U credit fer trying, but that can make U seriously stoopid iffen U ain't got the intellect to back it up, and if U have it, it must be backed up in U mile long constipation.

[Willie Pep 229]

You don't really need to have a devastating KO punch, but you DO need to generate enough offense to batter him to pieces. Ten solid punches beats one or two dynamite punches in wearing down an opponent or maybe putting enough punishment on him that his corner or the ref pulls his plug.

Yes true for today but we have historical evidence (Dempsey-Willard) that the refs back then would not necessarily pulled the plug. Then you had to be able put him down and keep him down.

I don't think any period in JJ's carrer did he have enough power to put Willard down.

You know the over used cliché: Styles make fights.

Plus the other cliché regarding triangular match ups, Jeffries may have had enough power to put Willard down, but not the skills to land cleanly on JJ.

No doubt JJ could have won an easy decision in 15 rounds at any point including Havana in 1915 but he never wins a fight to the finish with Willard.

Just my opinion.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Meanwhile, back at the pass where all the loot is split up, Ring gots a full Lar Feature going that may include a pin up for U unabashed adulating adorers.

Yupsir, git'em while they're HOT!!!


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[StarshipTrooper]

Yes true for today but we have historical evidence (Dempsey-Willard) that the refs back then would not necessarily pulled the plug. Then you had to be able put him down and keep him down.

I don't think any period in JJ's carrer did he have enough power to put Willard down.

You know the over used cliché: Styles make fights.

Plus the other cliché regarding triangular match ups, Jeffries may have had enough power to put Willard down, but not the skills to land cleanly on JJ.

No doubt JJ could have won an easy decision in 15 rounds at any point including Havana in 1915 but he never wins a fight to the finish with Willard.

Just my opinion.

I'm thinking more corner throwing in the towel (it happened back then) then the refs waving it off (although you never know, it wasn't unheard of, just very uncommon).....

[JAB5239]

- - Always figured U a Noob at heart.

JJ fought at a good hard pace going for the KO for 26 blistering rounds. U not very smart, but I give U credit fer trying, but that can make U seriously stoopid iffen U ain't got the intellect to back it up, and if U have it, it must be backed up in U mile long constipation.

So what other noteworthy fighters did Willard beat for you to come to this high and mighty conclusion about him? Johnson had been fighting professionally for 17+ years. How many fighters back then were still at the top of their game who had fought that long? That Johnson was never a contender again nor did he e er beat a top fighter again should attest to this.

[QueensburyRules]

So what other noteworthy fighters did Willard beat for you to come to this high and mighty conclusion about him? Johnson had been fighting professionally for 17+ years. How many fighters back then were still at the top of their game who had fought that long? That Johnson was never a contender again nor did he e er beat a top fighter again should attest to this.

- - I know you're slow, but do at least TRY to keep up.

There were no Ring Rankings then, none, nunca, and JJ chose to live and fight in Mexico before agreeing to serve a year's time in Leavenworth where he was in charge of recreational facilities and had several fights resulting in KOs. Upon release he calls out new champ Dempsey and eventually finds some backers in Mexico City to no avail.

Who did Lar ever beat capable of going 26 fast paced rounds in tropical conditions against a world class hvywt?

Heh, heh, I thought so

[Willie Pep 229]

In 1922 when Doc Kearns was out west beating the bushes for a fight (to get Dempsey away from Rickard) he wired the newspapers that he was on his way to Mexico City to negotiate a million dollar guarantee for a Dempsey-Johnson go.

Kearns never got any further south than San Francisco. Lol

I wonder if the million dollar offer was legit or if Kearns was just blowing more smoke up Rickard's ass?

Kearns didn't seem to have any desire to fight outside the States; he had also that year turned down a Carpentier rematch in Paris, that looked to have solid British money backing it.

He of course ended up in Shelby; that taught him a hard lesson.

[JAB5239]

- - I know you're slow, but do at least TRY to keep up.

There were no Ring Rankings then, none, nunca, and JJ chose to live and fight in Mexico before agreeing to serve a year's time in Leavenworth where he was in charge of recreational facilities and had several fights resulting in KOs. Upon release he calls out new champ Dempsey and eventually finds some backers in Mexico City to no avail.

Who did Lar ever beat capable of going 26 fast paced rounds in tropical conditions against a world class hvywt?

Heh, heh, I thought so

I'm slow? You're the one with reading comprehension problems. I never asker what ranked fighters he beat. I asked what other noteworthy fighters he beat, to which you have still not answered.

And where do you get 26 fast paced rounds from? I've read Johnson started fast, but nothing of this fight having a torrid pace.

Do you really want to to get into a debate obout the world class heavyweights Holmes beat in comparison to Willard? Please do!

So, as I originally stated. I'll take Shvers, Witherspoon, Cooney and Spinks over anyone Johnson fought as champion. Better skills, closer to prime and better resumes overall besides Jeffries who was woefully out his depth at the time he fought Jack.