Historiography and Oleksandr Usyk

[DeeMoney]

Please don’t take this to be a case of me hating on Usyk in anyway, shape, or form, I consider him to be an ATG fighter. But I find it interesting on how opinions have changed about him so rapidly as of late. With that in mind I thought I’d look back on what the consensus views of him were, and how they changed.

Lets start with 2019, Usyk had just finished his time at cruiserweight, most consider him to be one of the greatest cruisers ever along with Holyfield, Most figure he’s a future HOFer and a top 75 fighter of all time type guy (wherever you draw your line for ATG). That being, most don’t give him much a chance at heavyweight as they think he is too small for the super heavies.

-2019 Beat Chazz Whitherspoon Usyk’s first heavyweight fight, opinions remain the same.

-2020 Usyk gets the win over Derek Chisora in a fight that he didn’t look all that good in. Most people view this as proof that Usyk is not able to handle heavyweight.

-2021 Usyk lands the fight with Anthony Joshua, but he is a sizeable underdog (so up until then he isn’t viewed as anywhere near a great heavyweight). Usyk outboxes AJ and everyone is awestruck. Usyk is the favorite in the rematch and wins another decision. The general consensus is that Usyk is truly a great fighter, but a lot of luster has come off AJ. Remember this guy was KO’d by Ruiz recently, so its not as if people thought Usyk just beat a legend. Opinions are now that Usyk is clearly a viable heavyweight, but I doubt anyone has him in their top 20 all time at heavyweight

-2023 Usyk KOs Dubois, though some people question the validity with the lowblow call. Usyk is calling out Fury, who in a few months will escape against Ngannou. Fury looks worn and not the same fighter he was, but most people feel he can still be active enough and too big for Usyk.

-Early 2024 Usyk outboxes Fury in a close fight for a split decision win. Most people are shocked, though Usyk didn’t dominate he did clearly win. The general consensus is that Fury is a bit passed it, but Usyk having got the win is solidified as one of the greats of the generation.

-Late 2024 Usyk is a favorite against Fury going into their rematch, though not a big favorite, and this is something I want to point out. Going into this fight people view Usyk as being better than Fury (at that stage in his career certainly) but not by a substantial amount. And I still don’t see Usyk’s name being bandied about as a top 10 all time heavy. Usyk gets the win, more convincing than before, and is now being lauded as the top heavy of the generation by most, others say he beat up a worn Fury, but for the most part he is seen as the best of the past decade. Maybe some have him just in their top 10 all time at heavy, but not many. And it certainly is not generally accepted that he is a top 5 all time heavyweight.

-2025 Usyk KO’s Dubois looks great doing so. Fans all over proclaim Usyk to be better than Ali, some cite him as the greatest heavyweight of all time, other place him in their all time top 10.

So here is my question, why such a big jump in ratings based on the Dubois fight? You could argue that its not just based on the Dubois fight, but a culmination of his time at heavy, but if that were the case then it would have been discussed prior to the Dubois fight. To say that the Dubois fight is just the ‘straw-that-broke-the-camel’s-back’ doesn’t add up, as Dubois is not that big of a straw to move a fighter up 5-10 spots in the all time heavyweight rankings. But sure enough, that’s what it seems like happened.
Now maybe I am wrong in my review. Maybe people had Usyk as a top five all time heavyweight after he beat Fury and I just missed it, but I can’t really see where that’s the case. So for those who do have Usyk as being that high in the heavyweight rankings, where did you have him pre Fury as well as post Fury? How far did the Dubois fight move the needle for you? How much can such a small sample size matter, especially considering that Dubois is not an historically great fighter?

[JAB5239]

Please don’t take this to be a case of me hating on Usyk in anyway, shape, or form, I consider him to be an ATG fighter. But I find it interesting on how opinions have changed about him so rapidly as of late. With that in mind I thought I’d look back on what the consensus views of him were, and how they changed.

Lets start with 2019, Usyk had just finished his time at cruiserweight, most consider him to be one of the greatest cruisers ever along with Holyfield, Most figure he’s a future HOFer and a top 75 fighter of all time type guy (wherever you draw your line for ATG). That being, most don’t give him much a chance at heavyweight as they think he is too small for the super heavies.

-2019 Beat Chazz Whitherspoon Usyk’s first heavyweight fight, opinions remain the same.

-2020 Usyk gets the win over Derek Chisora in a fight that he didn’t look all that good in. Most people view this as proof that Usyk is not able to handle heavyweight.

-2021 Usyk lands the fight with Anthony Joshua, but he is a sizeable underdog (so up until then he isn’t viewed as anywhere near a great heavyweight). Usyk outboxes AJ and everyone is awestruck. Usyk is the favorite in the rematch and wins another decision. The general consensus is that Usyk is truly a great fighter, but a lot of luster has come off AJ. Remember this guy was KO’d by Ruiz recently, so its not as if people thought Usyk just beat a legend. Opinions are now that Usyk is clearly a viable heavyweight, but I doubt anyone has him in their top 20 all time at heavyweight

-2023 Usyk KOs Dubois, though some people question the validity with the lowblow call. Usyk is calling out Fury, who in a few months will escape against Ngannou. Fury looks worn and not the same fighter he was, but most people feel he can still be active enough and too big for Usyk.

-Early 2024 Usyk outboxes Fury in a close fight for a split decision win. Most people are shocked, though Usyk didn’t dominate he did clearly win. The general consensus is that Fury is a bit passed it, but Usyk having got the win is solidified as one of the greats of the generation.

-Late 2024 Usyk is a favorite against Fury going into their rematch, though not a big favorite, and this is something I want to point out. Going into this fight people view Usyk as being better than Fury (at that stage in his career certainly) but not by a substantial amount. And I still don’t see Usyk’s name being bandied about as a top 10 all time heavy. Usyk gets the win, more convincing than before, and is now being lauded as the top heavy of the generation by most, others say he beat up a worn Fury, but for the most part he is seen as the best of the past decade. Maybe some have him just in their top 10 all time at heavy, but not many. And it certainly is not generally accepted that he is a top 5 all time heavyweight.

-2025 Usyk KO’s Dubois looks great doing so. Fans all over proclaim Usyk to be better than Ali, some cite him as the greatest heavyweight of all time, other place him in their all time top 10.

So here is my question, why such a big jump in ratings based on the Dubois fight? You could argue that its not just based on the Dubois fight, but a culmination of his time at heavy, but if that were the case then it would have been discussed prior to the Dubois fight. To say that the Dubois fight is just the ‘straw-that-broke-the-camel’s-back’ doesn’t add up, as Dubois is not that big of a straw to move a fighter up 5-10 spots in the all time heavyweight rankings. But sure enough, that’s what it seems like happened.
Now maybe I am wrong in my review. Maybe people had Usyk as a top five all time heavyweight after he beat Fury and I just missed it, but I can’t really see where that’s the case. So for those who do have Usyk as being that high in the heavyweight rankings, where did you have him pre Fury as well as post Fury? How far did the Dubois fight move the needle for you? How much can such a small sample size matter, especially considering that Dubois is not an historically great fighter?

People always jump the gun on these things. In hindsight fury and Joshua appeared to be washed (in my opinion only) and it's really going to depend on Dubois and future opponents achievements to really gage where to rate Usyk. I think he's crept his way into the top 20, maybe higher. My opinion of AJ and Fury is subjective and they were both still top fighters, Fury being at the top. Were they the same as the once were? I don't think so. But you can't take away from their rankings at the time they fought Usyk.

[DeeMoney]

People always jump the gun on these things. In hindsight fury and Joshua appeared to be washed (in my opinion only) and it's really going to depend on Dubois and future opponents achievements to really gage where to rate Usyk. I think he's crept his way into the top 20, maybe higher. My opinion of AJ and Fury is subjective and they were both still top fighters, Fury being at the top. Were they the same as the once were? I don't think so. But you can't take away from their rankings at the time they fought Usyk.

I get that, I guess my thought is why did Usyk's stock rise so much post the Dubois fight? I could see it coming after the Fury fight (though not to the extent that it has based on just one fight).

It seems as if this single fight took him from being around top 10 all time heavyweight, to now near the top.

[JAB5239]

I get that, I guess my thought is why did Usyk's stock rise so much post the Dubois fight? I could see it coming after the Fury fight (though not to the extent that it has based on just one fight).

It seems as if this single fight took him from being around top 10 all time heavyweight, to now near the top.

I think, and maybe it's just me, that a lot of people want to feel a connection to greatness so they prematurely bestow it upon a fighter they like or want to be great. Im not saying Usyk isn't or won't be, but very few fighters actually reach an ATG level while still active. I believe this because a lot of their opponents careers have not concluded. That's just my opinion.

[Willie Pep 229]

Please don’t take this to be a case of me hating on Usyk in anyway, shape, or form, I consider him to be an ATG fighter. But I find it interesting on how opinions have changed about him so rapidly as of late. With that in mind I thought I’d look back on what the consensus views of him were, and how they changed.

Lets start with 2019, Usyk had just finished his time at cruiserweight, most consider him to be one of the greatest cruisers ever along with Holyfield, Most figure he’s a future HOFer and a top 75 fighter of all time type guy (wherever you draw your line for ATG). That being, most don’t give him much a chance at heavyweight as they think he is too small for the super heavies.

-2019 Beat Chazz Whitherspoon Usyk’s first heavyweight fight, opinions remain the same.

-2020 Usyk gets the win over Derek Chisora in a fight that he didn’t look all that good in. Most people view this as proof that Usyk is not able to handle heavyweight.

-2021 Usyk lands the fight with Anthony Joshua, but he is a sizeable underdog (so up until then he isn’t viewed as anywhere near a great heavyweight). Usyk outboxes AJ and everyone is awestruck. Usyk is the favorite in the rematch and wins another decision. The general consensus is that Usyk is truly a great fighter, but a lot of luster has come off AJ. Remember this guy was KO’d by Ruiz recently, so its not as if people thought Usyk just beat a legend. Opinions are now that Usyk is clearly a viable heavyweight, but I doubt anyone has him in their top 20 all time at heavyweight

-2023 Usyk KOs Dubois, though some people question the validity with the lowblow call. Usyk is calling out Fury, who in a few months will escape against Ngannou. Fury looks worn and not the same fighter he was, but most people feel he can still be active enough and too big for Usyk.

-Early 2024 Usyk outboxes Fury in a close fight for a split decision win. Most people are shocked, though Usyk didn’t dominate he did clearly win. The general consensus is that Fury is a bit passed it, but Usyk having got the win is solidified as one of the greats of the generation.

-Late 2024 Usyk is a favorite against Fury going into their rematch, though not a big favorite, and this is something I want to point out. Going into this fight people view Usyk as being better than Fury (at that stage in his career certainly) but not by a substantial amount. And I still don’t see Usyk’s name being bandied about as a top 10 all time heavy. Usyk gets the win, more convincing than before, and is now being lauded as the top heavy of the generation by most, others say he beat up a worn Fury, but for the most part he is seen as the best of the past decade. Maybe some have him just in their top 10 all time at heavy, but not many. And it certainly is not generally accepted that he is a top 5 all time heavyweight.

-2025 Usyk KO’s Dubois looks great doing so. Fans all over proclaim Usyk to be better than Ali, some cite him as the greatest heavyweight of all time, other place him in their all time top 10.

So here is my question, why such a big jump in ratings based on the Dubois fight? You could argue that its not just based on the Dubois fight, but a culmination of his time at heavy, but if that were the case then it would have been discussed prior to the Dubois fight. To say that the Dubois fight is just the ‘straw-that-broke-the-camel’s-back’ doesn’t add up, as Dubois is not that big of a straw to move a fighter up 5-10 spots in the all time heavyweight rankings. But sure enough, that’s what it seems like happened.
Now maybe I am wrong in my review. Maybe people had Usyk as a top five all time heavyweight after he beat Fury and I just missed it, but I can’t really see where that’s the case. So for those who do have Usyk as being that high in the heavyweight rankings, where did you have him pre Fury as well as post Fury? How far did the Dubois fight move the needle for you? How much can such a small sample size matter, especially considering that Dubois is not an historically great fighter?

Great summary. It helped me to gain a proper timeline.

I believe the answer is a simple one.

We want a great champion and so we embrace them quickly, maybe too quickly.

Historically speaking we don't know how he will echo.

But for right now, comparing him to the ATGs, e.g. Ali, is pointless, but good for the fight game.

Prize fighting overall, does better when its HW champion is thought to be 'the baddest guy on the planet.'

So what the hell, lets talk him up. He has certainly eraned it the right way.

I think we all agree, we couldn't have asked for a better climb to the title than the one he gave us.

But don't worry about the history, his actual position will get sorted out eventually.

[Haka]

A component of it is performance based, boxes people ears off without making a single mistake bar some landed punches conceded.

[SouthpawRight]

all time great heavy without an all time great opponent due to a lacking heavyweight era

definitely not a top 5 heavy. top 15 at most

I'd pick the 4 great swarming heavies over him: Jack Rocky Frazier Mike

Usyk is vulnerable to punches that come from below whether they be body shots or uppers

Because of uppers I'd pick George Foreman Grill Larry and Lennox over him too

and Joe's right cross of god would get Usyk

[SouthpawRight]

Great summary. It helped me to gain a proper timeline.

I believe the answer is a simple one.

We want a great champion and so we embrace them quickly, maybe too quickly.

Historically speaking we don't know how he will echo.

But for right now, comparing him to the ATGs, e.g. Ali, is pointless, but good for the fight game.

Prize fighting overall, does better when its HW champion is thought to be 'the baddest guy on the planet.'

So what the hell, lets talk him up. He has certainly eraned it the right way.

I think we all agree, we couldn't have asked for a better climb to the title than the one he gave us.

But don't worry about the history, his actual position will get sorted out eventually.

I suspect many of the people who are delulu about how great Usyk is are young ukrainian kids in the YouTube comments sections

3rd world has lesser education

they struggle to quickly learn why other great heavyweights were better and that he isn't the goat heavy

compounded by the fact that ukraine boxing history is lacking starting fairly recently with the Klitch bros

so historical context flies over much of the fanbase's heads

reminds me of manny's fanatics in the philippines

lot of premature GOATing that doesn't pan out

[Haka]

all time great heavy without an all time great opponent due to a lacking heavyweight era

definitely not a top 5 heavy. top 15 at most

I'd pick the 4 great swarming heavies over him: Jack Rocky Frazier Mike

Usyk is vulnerable to punches that come from below whether they be body shots or uppers

Because of uppers I'd pick George Foreman Grill Larry and Lennox over him too

and Joe's right cross of god would get Usyk

Usyk 10x better than Morrison ever was, James Tillis landed and survived easily against prime prime Mike. Put Usyk in there and Mike does not hold it together on a well timed left.

[Coverdale]

Recency bias and the emotional nature of human beings. Plus you're possibly placing too much emphasis on a self-selecting group of people on the internet.