Historiography and Oleksandr Usyk

[SouthpawRight]

Usyk 10x better than Morrison ever was, James Tillis landed and survived easily against prime prime Mike. Put Usyk in there and Mike does not hold it together on a well timed left.

Nah Usyk too feather fisted to KO Mike

Mike makes it close quarters combat which squares Usyk up and negates his southpaw angles edge

[JAB5239]

Usyk 10x better than Morrison ever was, James Tillis landed and survived easily against prime prime Mike. Put Usyk in there and Mike does not hold it together on a well timed left.

I'd pick prime Tyson to beat Usyk, and he rates higher all time.

[DeeMoney]

A component of it is performance based, boxes people ears off without making a single mistake bar some landed punches conceded.

Yeah, thats clearly why they rank him highly. And once again I am fine with that and can agree with that. But just why this sudden jump in opinion after the Dubois fight specifically? Why was that sentiment not being espoused after the second Fury fight? Does this single data point of KOing Dubois make that big of a difference?

[Haka]

Yeah, thats clearly why they rank him highly. And once again I am fine with that and can agree with that. But just why this sudden jump in opinion after the Dubois fight specifically? Why was that sentiment not being espoused after the second Fury fight? Does this single data point of KOing Dubois make that big of a difference?

I think last fight Usyk showed another aspect of his game that I felt he has been holding back for a long time, and people now realizing the full spectrum of that.

[SouthpawRight]

Yeah, thats clearly why they rank him highly. And once again I am fine with that and can agree with that. But just why this sudden jump in opinion after the Dubois fight specifically? Why was that sentiment not being espoused after the second Fury fight? Does this single data point of KOing Dubois make that big of a difference?

I think some people had Dubois knocking Usyk out with that body shot

while Dubois is contender level Usyk dominating him cemented Usyk's place as peerless among the current heavies

[NotIron]

Nah Usyk too feather fisted to KO Mike

Mike makes it close quarters combat which squares Usyk up and negates his southpaw angles edge

Usyk feather fisted? How?

[SouthpawRight]

I think last fight Usyk showed another aspect of his game that I felt he has been holding back for a long time, and people now realizing the full spectrum of that.

I am anticipating Usyk-Parker

Buff Guy Jai’s Cousin Parker is pure box and the best candidate for building on the success of Tony Bellew’s tactics

[Willie Pep 229]

I think Usyk has (motivation wise,) one more big fight left in him. Then it should end.

[QueensburyRules]

Please don’t take this to be a case of me hating on Usyk in anyway, shape, or form, I consider him to be an ATG fighter. But I find it interesting on how opinions have changed about him so rapidly as of late. With that in mind I thought I’d look back on what the consensus views of him were, and how they changed.

Lets start with 2019, Usyk had just finished his time at cruiserweight, most consider him to be one of the greatest cruisers ever along with Holyfield, Most figure he’s a future HOFer and a top 75 fighter of all time type guy (wherever you draw your line for ATG). That being, most don’t give him much a chance at heavyweight as they think he is too small for the super heavies.

-2019 Beat Chazz Whitherspoon Usyk’s first heavyweight fight, opinions remain the same.

-2020 Usyk gets the win over Derek Chisora in a fight that he didn’t look all that good in. Most people view this as proof that Usyk is not able to handle heavyweight.

-2021 Usyk lands the fight with Anthony Joshua, but he is a sizeable underdog (so up until then he isn’t viewed as anywhere near a great heavyweight). Usyk outboxes AJ and everyone is awestruck. Usyk is the favorite in the rematch and wins another decision. The general consensus is that Usyk is truly a great fighter, but a lot of luster has come off AJ. Remember this guy was KO’d by Ruiz recently, so its not as if people thought Usyk just beat a legend. Opinions are now that Usyk is clearly a viable heavyweight, but I doubt anyone has him in their top 20 all time at heavyweight

-2023 Usyk KOs Dubois, though some people question the validity with the lowblow call. Usyk is calling out Fury, who in a few months will escape against Ngannou. Fury looks worn and not the same fighter he was, but most people feel he can still be active enough and too big for Usyk.

-Early 2024 Usyk outboxes Fury in a close fight for a split decision win. Most people are shocked, though Usyk didn’t dominate he did clearly win. The general consensus is that Fury is a bit passed it, but Usyk having got the win is solidified as one of the greats of the generation.

-Late 2024 Usyk is a favorite against Fury going into their rematch, though not a big favorite, and this is something I want to point out. Going into this fight people view Usyk as being better than Fury (at that stage in his career certainly) but not by a substantial amount. And I still don’t see Usyk’s name being bandied about as a top 10 all time heavy. Usyk gets the win, more convincing than before, and is now being lauded as the top heavy of the generation by most, others say he beat up a worn Fury, but for the most part he is seen as the best of the past decade. Maybe some have him just in their top 10 all time at heavy, but not many. And it certainly is not generally accepted that he is a top 5 all time heavyweight.

-2025 Usyk KO’s Dubois looks great doing so. Fans all over proclaim Usyk to be better than Ali, some cite him as the greatest heavyweight of all time, other place him in their all time top 10.

So here is my question, why such a big jump in ratings based on the Dubois fight? You could argue that its not just based on the Dubois fight, but a culmination of his time at heavy, but if that were the case then it would have been discussed prior to the Dubois fight. To say that the Dubois fight is just the ‘straw-that-broke-the-camel’s-back’ doesn’t add up, as Dubois is not that big of a straw to move a fighter up 5-10 spots in the all time heavyweight rankings. But sure enough, that’s what it seems like happened.
Now maybe I am wrong in my review. Maybe people had Usyk as a top five all time heavyweight after he beat Fury and I just missed it, but I can’t really see where that’s the case. So for those who do have Usyk as being that high in the heavyweight rankings, where did you have him pre Fury as well as post Fury? How far did the Dubois fight move the needle for you? How much can such a small sample size matter, especially considering that Dubois is not an historically great fighter?

- - Look, Usyk cleared out the 200+lb division with a perfect 30-0 record which is better than most modern heavies and he did it like Manny as the away fighter, and worse saddled as a dirty commie.

He says one and done in Ukraine, but Turki possibly could lure him. Thing is I don't think $$$ is a motivator any more since he's rich.

If he loses his last fight, lowbrows will claim he's shyte on a shingle...

[DeeMoney]

- - Look, Usyk cleared out the 200+lb division with a perfect 30-0 record which is better than most modern heavies and he did it like Manny as the away fighter, and worse saddled as a dirty commie.

He says one and done in Ukraine, but Turki possibly could lure him. Thing is I don't think $$$ is a motivator any more since he's rich.

If he loses his last fight, lowbrows will claim he's shyte on a shingle...

That really doesn't have to do much with my post and question. I was more wondering why specifically after the Dubois II fight did he receive such a major bump in his overall historic standing for so many? As opposed to after the Fury fights or more of a gradual build up. I'm not doubting his ability, more the odd way and timing people have chosen to evaluate his historic standing.