Why I've come to respect Rocky Marciano so much (and it's not about 49-0).

[Bronson66]

Anyone claiming whites never faced prejudice or discrimination in boxing needs to wipe the fog from their glasses and find better sources.

Invisible Italian American boxers – To the untrained eye, it seemed that prior to the 1920s there were few noteworthy American boxers of Italian origin—and a limited presence in the decades that followed. But behind many Irish boxing names, there frequently stood an olive-skinned, dark-haired fighter with a hidden identity. More than one thousand Italian professional boxers went by Irish pseudonyms.

Italian immigrants entered boxing at a time when the booming American economy took advantage of Italian muscle to fuel the nation’s growth. However, the ruling elites—the very ones who benefitted from cheap immigrant labor—disparaged Italians, describing them as “biologically incapable” and a “burden on America.”

In addition to enduring these attacks, Italian immigrants came into conflict with the established Irish working class in almost every sphere of society. They fought over municipal and construction jobs. They argued over church matters within the predominantly Irish-controlled Catholic Church. In many instances, Italians were forced to worship in the back, and sometimes even in the basement, of these buildings.

Boxers with Italian names were often met with "virulent hostility" and jeers from crowds, particularly from the predominantly Irish boxing patrons. The National Police Gazette in 1903 observed this hostile reception, noting a clear difference in how Irish and Italian fighters were received.

In 1903, the National Police Gazette captured this, reporting that:

It is amusing to note the way in which the crowd at ringside receives the different nationalities of fighters. There is always a hearty cheer and earnest backing for the Irishman; grins and good-humored tolerance for the German and virulent hostility to the Italian and the Negr0. Put a boy of any race in with an Italian and everybody in the house who is not himself of Italian origin at once begins to root frantically against the son of ancient Rome. It is to the credit of the Italians that they have pushed so far forward against such adverse influences.

Those who refused to change their name frequently complained at the lack of regular fights. Minnesota-native Tony Caponi, who fought between 1902-1917, blamed his lack of booking on his surname, believing that to promoters his real name sounded “more like a music master than a prizefighter.” For a time, Caponi changed his name to TC O’Brien. For the next several decades, a host of other Italian boxers from all across the country followed this trend.

New Jersey-native and pre-World War I heavyweight contender Andrew Chiariglione claimed his Irish moniker on a Utah boxing card. Irritated by the announcers’ inability to pronounce his surname correctly and anxious to get the fight under way, Chiariglione bellowed, “Oh, hell, just call me Jim Flynn.” From then on he became known as “Fireman” Jim Flynn.

The Italians were forced to change their names because the Irish and the Germans were running everything,” he reflected. “They had to change their names otherwise they would have got the worst of it. They got better jobs.

While no area remained untouched, having an Irish moniker was a necessary evil just to get a foothold in the boxing arena. It offered more prominent billing on boxing cards and ensured a wider appeal to audiences expecting to see men with the crowd-pleasing qualities that were synonymous with Irish-American prizefighters.

This statement may have been relevant in the early 1900's,but I don't think it applied to the 40's and 50's when Rocky came up .

Mancini
De Marco
Basilio
Loi
Rosi
Jannazzo
Janiro
Fusari
Zannelli
Durando
Castellani
Giardello
Giambra
Apostoli
Mauriello
Graziano
Lamotta
Bettina
Lastarza
Pastrano
Muscato
Valentino
Maxim
Dorazio
Bucceroni
DeJohn
Miceli
Were all very popular fighters in the 40's and 50's and if a couple of them shortened their names , it was for billboard purposes not because of prejudice. By the 40's men of Italian heritage were increasingly becoming fight fans and, more importantly,they had the do re mi to show it by buying tickets to see their ethnic heroes. Being of Italian origin in those two decades certainly wasnt a draw back financially,and that was the era the fighter in question ,Marciano plied his trade.

[Bronson66]

You're obviously just lonely. All you posts is nonsense. Back in the ignore bin you go.

Talk to you next year when I do my annual iggy bin clean out. I'm sure I won't miss anything.

He's a harmless attention seeker

[GhostofDempsey]

- - Useless sound bite quote. As soon as record $$$ hit the Wills fight, Dempsey and even Kearns were all in.

$$$ talks while you know shyte.

He has his anonymous sources all queued up anytime Dempsey's name is mentioned. LOL

[GhostofDempsey]

This statement may have been relevant in the early 1900's,but I don't think it applied to the 40's and 50's when Rocky came up .

Mancini
De Marco
Basilio
Loi
Rosi
Jannazzo
Janiro
Fusari
Zannelli
Durando
Castellani
Giardello
Giambra
Apostoli
Mauriello
Graziano
Lamotta
Bettina
Lastarza
Pastrano
Muscato
Valentino
Maxim
Dorazio
Bucceroni
DeJohn
Miceli
Were all very popular fighters in the 40's and 50's and if a couple of them shortened their names , it was for billboard purposes not because of prejudice. By the 40's men of Italian heritage were increasingly becoming fight fans and, more importantly,they had the do re mi to show it by buying tickets to see their ethnic heroes. Being of Italian origin in those two decades certainly wasnt a draw back financially,and that was the era the fighter in question ,Marciano plied his trade.

No, not by the time Rocky was fighting, but even Pep changed his name because his real name was too ethnic for the mainstream. Italian and ***ish fighters often changed their names in the early part of 1900s up to the 40s.

[Bronson66]

No, not by the time Rocky was fighting, but even Pep changed his name because his real name was too ethnic for the mainstream. Italian and ***ish fighters often changed their names in the early part of 1900s up to the 40s.

But the question of prejudice concerned Rocky's era and career so your statement is not relevant .Hundreds of fighters have shortened their names ,fighters of every ethnic background, that does not indicate an ingrown prejudice against them.
By the 40's such unfortunate bias had largely disappeared and instead become an advantage.
Who said Pep changed his name because it was too ethnic? It could equally be because it was too long for the bill board!

To state the obvious, America is a nation of immigrants,and quite naturally those immigrants rooted for one of their own

[GhostofDempsey]

But the question of prejudice concerned Rocky's era and career so your statement is not relevant .Hundreds of fighters have shortened their names ,fighters of every ethnic background, that does not indicate an ingrown prejudice against them.
By the 40's such unfortunate bias had largely disappeared and instead become an advantage.
Who said Pep changed his name because it was too ethnic? It could equally be because it was too long for the bill board!

To state the obvious, America is a nation of immigrants,and quite naturally those immigrants rooted for one of their own

You asked when has a white fighter EVER...well, ever means any time.

[Bronson66]

You asked when has a white fighter EVER...well, ever means any time.

No ,actually this is what I posted.

Not at all,I'm flat out stating that there was never any colour prejudice against white boxers.
That they were never seen ,either by promoters or the general public as being inferior in boxing ability to black boxers.
I'm saying they got vastly more opportunities than black boxers ever did and often because of the colour of their skin.
I'm saying promoters were reluctant to pit two black boxers against each other in championship contests because they did not draw.



I'm saying that white boxers often got the lions share of the purse for the same reason.

I'm saying that this did not begin to change until Joe Louis came along.and even into comparatively recent years white boxers got more than their share of media coverage eg Cooney, Morrison.

Im saying this was the reason there was The White Hope era.

I'm saying this was why hugely talented black boxers of the1890's and early to middle1920s were forced to fight each other on the "Chittling Circuit" for peanuts to earn a crust of bread,or become like Armstrong ,Martin Godfrey,part time spar mates for white champions and white contenders .

I'm saying White fighters were not racxhis is the reason the Black Murderers Row never got their chances at world titles,whilst lesser talented white fighters did.

I'm saying that it is well documented that black fighters were sometimes forced to wear the cuffs when fighting white men.

This isnt just about colour prejudice either,its about GREEN prejudice$$$$$$. Fight crowds were predominantly white and as is to some extent rather natural, they identified and rooted for white guys in the ring.

Provide an example of a white boxer who was underestimated,devaluated below his true worth because of his skin colour?
Last edited by Bronson66; 07-17-2025, 10:47 AM.
And I stand by every word of it . Italians were not discriminated because of the colour of their skin.


Eight pages of posts,and you focused on mine? I'm flattered.

[GhostofDempsey]

No ,actually this is what I posted.

Not at all,I'm flat out stating that there was never any colour prejudice against white boxers.
That they were never seen ,either by promoters or the general public as being inferior in boxing ability to black boxers.
I'm saying they got vastly more opportunities than black boxers ever did and often because of the colour of their skin.
I'm saying promoters were reluctant to pit two black boxers against each other in championship contests because they did not draw.



I'm saying that white boxers often got the lions share of the purse for the same reason.

I'm saying that this did not begin to change until Joe Louis came along.and even into comparatively recent years white boxers got more than their share of media coverage eg Cooney, Morrison.

Im saying this was the reason there was The White Hope era.

I'm saying this was why hugely talented black boxers of the1890's and early to middle1920s were forced to fight each other on the "Chittling Circuit" for peanuts to earn a crust of bread,or become like Armstrong ,Martin Godfrey,part time spar mates for white champions and white contenders .

I'm saying White fighters were not racxhis is the reason the Black Murderers Row never got their chances at world titles,whilst lesser talented white fighters did.

I'm saying that it is well documented that black fighters were sometimes forced to wear the cuffs when fighting white men.

This isnt just about colour prejudice either,its about GREEN prejudice$$$$$$. Fight crowds were predominantly white and as is to some extent rather natural, they identified and rooted for white guys in the ring.

Provide an example of a white boxer who was underestimated,devaluated below his true worth because of his skin colour?
Last edited by Bronson66; 07-17-2025, 10:47 AM.
And I stand by every word of it . Italians were not discriminated because of the colour of their skin.


Eight pages of posts,and you focused on mine? I'm flattered.

You didn’t say all that until now. Until you quoted me first. I disagree with some of what you said, and I’ll leave it at that or you’ll go on crying for another 40 pages.

[Mr Mitts]

No ,actually this is what I posted.

Not at all,I'm flat out stating that there was never any colour prejudice against white boxers.
That they were never seen ,either by promoters or the general public as being inferior in boxing ability to black boxers.
I'm saying they got vastly more opportunities than black boxers ever did and often because of the colour of their skin.
I'm saying promoters were reluctant to pit two black boxers against each other in championship contests because they did not draw.



I'm saying that white boxers often got the lions share of the purse for the same reason.

I'm saying that this did not begin to change until Joe Louis came along.and even into comparatively recent years white boxers got more than their share of media coverage eg Cooney, Morrison.

Im saying this was the reason there was The White Hope era.

I'm saying this was why hugely talented black boxers of the1890's and early to middle1920s were forced to fight each other on the "Chittling Circuit" for peanuts to earn a crust of bread,or become like Armstrong ,Martin Godfrey,part time spar mates for white champions and white contenders .

I'm saying White fighters were not racxhis is the reason the Black Murderers Row never got their chances at world titles,whilst lesser talented white fighters did.

I'm saying that it is well documented that black fighters were sometimes forced to wear the cuffs when fighting white men.

This isnt just about colour prejudice either,its about GREEN prejudice$$$$$$. Fight crowds were predominantly white and as is to some extent rather natural, they identified and rooted for white guys in the ring.

Provide an example of a white boxer who was underestimated,devaluated below his true worth because of his skin colour?
Last edited by Bronson66; 07-17-2025, 10:47 AM.
And I stand by every word of it . Italians were not discriminated because of the colour of their skin.


Eight pages of posts,and you focused on mine? I'm flattered.

What are you talking about cuffs?

[Bronson66]

What are you talking about cuffs?

"hand cuffs" ie take it easy on white opponents.