Who actually beats Johnson at his absolute prime?

[Bronson66]

LMAO.

First of all, Pollack wasn't born at the time of the Johnson & Johnson fight. I wonder where he thinks Pollack got the reports from?


Second, the fight being called a draw doesn't mean anyone struggled. Especially since reports say Johnson clowned for the first 3 rounds and then stopped using one hand for the rest of the fight (which aligns with his claim he broke it in round 3). The most widely held reports weren't that he struggled, but that neither one was fighting and the people wanted their money back.

That is the exact truth!

[QueensburyRules]

The ref said he hit Sharkey in the leg.

What's also interesting is the ref literally has both hands on Dempsey pulling at him to give the warning for the low blow at the time that the final punch was delivered.

- - Then the ref is an idjit which most are along with judges and most boxing fans who complain and moan constantly about a sport they don't understand that they helped to create, ie much like U!

Clear shots straight up the gut as the video shows. Possibly they caught a portion of the belt line, but like I say, Sharkey was hurt bad enough to complain to the ref when Dempsey KOed him.

[Dr Z]

closer inspection of Johnsons style and temperament, he is one of the hardest fighters to bet against.

1: he's a master grappler, making him very very hard to hit flush

2: he's mean as hell, often holding opponents up, mocking them while beating on them, ensuring they walked away with a brutal beating and not letting them go down

3: he's quick as a cat and a master of hiding this until the last moment

4: his stamina combined with his energy efficient style made him a late round fighter

5: he's is completely fearless, probably due to his upbringing and temperament - to do what he was doing in his day means he lived only for the moment and had no fear of death

There is not too many ways to effectively beat him, you can't really get an offense going on a guy with the footwork, grappling and headmovement of Johnson (he rides and rolls shots like a master)

Sam Langford said he was so smooth and quick, and likely influenced his own style.

what do you all think, h2h, prime for prime vs anyone

All time? What is his best win and please consider the age and condition of the opponents.

[travestyny]

- - Then the ref is an idjit which most are along with judges and most boxing fans who complain and moan constantly about a sport they don't understand that they helped to create, ie much like U!

Clear shots straight up the gut as the video shows. Possibly they caught a portion of the belt line, but like I say, Sharkey was hurt bad enough to complain to the ref when Dempsey KOed him.

Oh really? Take a screen cap of the straight up the gut shot.

Maybe you'll find the idjit is you.

[GhostofDempsey]

Moyle and I are Face book friends, he and I have never had a cross word, and I wrote a review for his Langford book, the only minor disagreement was over Langford's age,when we agreed his estimate of it was as close as could be ascertained..

Pollack never said ,or in anyway implied thatJohnson was lucky to get a draw with Battling Jim that was a lie of your own invention
I've had 2 user names since I first posted here about14 years ago Ivich and the one I have now ,
You are doing it again,insulting other posters via your replies to me.
You've done what I expected you to , turned tail and run,Well keep doing it you eunuch waste of space!

Wrong, you insisted Langford didn’t want a rematch with Johnson. Moyle corrected you as you stubbornly tried to save face. Facebook friends….lol, are you a middle aged housewife now?

Where did I say Pollack said he was lucky to get a draw? One judge had Battling Jim winning, so yes, Johnson was lucky to get a draw. You’re trying desperately to move the goal post after I just proved the quote I provided was from Pollack and in his book you claim to have read.

Have a good cry, I don’t owe you or your forum-wife any respect. You have both insulted me and various other posters here, stop playing the victim. No one is running from you, this is easy work.

[GhostofDempsey]

That is the exact truth!

Is it the truth? Are you telling me all newspapers articles written back then were credible? Newspapers often printed stories from whichever promoter was first to get to them or paid them off. Your forum wife mostly posts anonymous sources from obscure articles. I’ll do it now and see if you believe those reporters who were there in the 1900s.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...unboat%20smith

IMG_3346.jpg

When I posted the statement about Wills from Frank Menke a highly regarded sportswriter of the 1920’s you fell silent. He was there. Still believe all newspapers articles written over 100 years ago or just the cherry-picked ones that fit your agenda?

[Bronson66]

Is it the truth? Are you telling me all newspapers articles written back then were credible? Newspapers often printed stories from whichever promoter was first to get to them or paid them off. Your forum wife mostly posts anonymous sources from obscure articles. I’ll do it now and see if you believe those reporters who were there in the 1900s.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...unboat%20smith

IMG_3346.jpg

When I posted the statement about Wills from Frank Menke a highly regarded sportswriter of the 1920’s you fell silent. He was there. Still believe all newspapers articles written over 100 years ago or just the cherry-picked ones that fit your agenda?

Menke was never a boxing writer per se, he was known more in boxing as a ghost writer for champions.
His field of expertise was in Baseball and Horeracing.


You would rather believe an , "as told" article from Menke than a taped interview with Smith conducted in his own home?
I wonder why that is? lol
My articles came from Pollack,is there a more qualified author on Johnson anyone could quote?
If so name him?
You had your chance to engage in a sensible debate and bottled it ,"Varys".
Cheer up though, you have a new supporter for your hate agenda,just reappeared.

You should get on just fine! Well until Dempsey is mentioned! lol

[Bronson66]

Wrong, you insisted Langford didn’t want a rematch with Johnson. Moyle corrected you as you stubbornly tried to save face. Facebook friends….lol, are you a middle aged housewife now?

Where did I say Pollack said he was lucky to get a draw? One judge had Battling Jim winning, so yes, Johnson was lucky to get a draw. You’re trying desperately to move the goal post after I just proved the quote I provided was from Pollack and in his book you claim to have read.

Have a good cry, I don’t owe you or your forum-wife any respect. You have both insulted me and various other posters here, stop playing the victim. No one is running from you, this is easy work.

I never said Langford did not want a rematch with Johnson,when he wanted it is another matter.

You said this.

"Should have lost to Battling Jim but was given a gift draw." And it is a barefaced lie ,driven by hatred.

Now you have you tag team partner back from his ban zeroed in straight onto Johnson threads, like a moth to a flame.
You deserve each other.

[travestyny]

Is it the truth? Are you telling me all newspapers articles written back then were credible? Newspapers often printed stories from whichever promoter was first to get to them or paid them off. Your forum wife mostly posts anonymous sources from obscure articles. I’ll do it now and see if you believe those reporters who were there in the 1900s.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...unboat%20smith

IMG_3346.jpg

When I posted the statement about Wills from Frank Menke a highly regarded sportswriter of the 1920’s you fell silent. He was there. Still believe all newspapers articles written over 100 years ago or just the cherry-picked ones that fit your agenda?

Look at this hypocrite. He's not fooling anyone. He just had nothing else to fall back on. He's pretending that he shared this article because of me.

Meanwhile, I've already shown he's done this numerous times.

In 1914 the NSC offered Johnson £6000, which was approximately $30,000, to face Langford. Johnson called the offer "ridiculous" and rejected it. (Townsville Daily Bulletin, 17th Feb 1914)

French promoter Theodore Vienne says he offered Johnson $25,000 and then $30,000 to meet Langford in Paris. Johnson turned him down. Johnson's continual refusal to meet the best challengers led to the French Boxing Federation stripping him of the title (Winnipeg Tribune, 27th Dec 1913)

McIntosh made a series of offers to Johnson: $60,000 to fight Langford, McVey and Jeannette in Australia (NYT 9 Dec 1912); $30,000 for an unnamed opponent that the author presumes to be Langford (NYT 26th June 1912); $40,000 for Langford and McVey with $5000 expenses and a $10,000 forfeit (NYT 9th August 1912). Then there was a reported $100,000 to fight Langford and Jeannette in Australia and Flynn in Paris (NYT Oct 12 1912)

Still waiting for those authors, GhostofDumpsy


While you are at it, release the footnotes/bibliography from Pollack's book so we can look at the NEWSPAPER ARTICLES that he got his information from

[Dr Z]

You’re splitting hairs and trying to play gotcha. That tactic didn’t work with your forum-wife here and it won’t work now. Fact is, Smith dropped Johnson right through the ropes. Where did Johnson land, on the ceiling?

Authors are sources and they use primary sources for their books. You routinely quote the same authors as me as sources now you want to move to goal post to anonymous news articles from obscure publications, laughable. You have zero credibility.

Any man who has less than ten fights and goes twenty rounds 3x with the so-called best HW is competitive. He did better than all the never-was no-hopers you’re always touting here.

We don’t know if prime Jeannette, Langford or McVey beat Johnson because he never fought them in their prime. Quack quack. Lay off the cheap whiskey.

Why would I care if you declare me a Johnson hater? I couldn’t care less. Now tell your racist forum-wife she is a Dempsey hater. I dare you. You won’t because you accept likes and pats on the head from anyone. Kissing your ass supersedes your pursuit of the truth.

Bingo.

Gun Boat Smith who was arguably the 1st or 2nd best of the White hopes, ( Willard was the 3rd and knocked Johnson out ) knocked him down and had Johnson's manager halt the action to save his fighter who was on ***** street. Call it what you will. I say that is a TKO.

The paper trial of Johnson losing to historically lesser fighters, and drawing with lesser men is long. He did not meet seasoned pro's who in their primes either. He avoided several of them.

End of.

IMO, he is overrated.