Who actually beats Johnson at his absolute prime?

[GhostofDempsey]

- - Hire one of U boys to sniffin' BS archives...oh, wait, he quit because U cain't pay him...OK

Notice how he steers every Johnson thread to another Dempsey hate thread because he cannot defend either of them without anonymous sources or out of context quotes. No one takes him seriously on this entire site, he’s a racist clown who thrives on negativity. All of his besties on here have been banned for racism.

[Bronson66]

You’re ignored all of my sources in favor of running the discussion in a circle, all so you couldn’t be painted into a corner by someone who dares to challenge you.

Nope I asked you for your sources for the following.


Who was your source that Smith heavily dropped Johnson to the canvas?

Which one stated McVey was competitive with Johnson?


Which source says Johnson struggled with Battling Jim Johnson?
You posted an anonymous AP wire report on the Johnson v Johnson fight,that is NOT a primary source.
I have the round by round summary of the fight taken from several ringside newspapers as the fight happened.That IS a primary source!

You posted nothing on the other two,because they are just your bilious personal opinion.


Anyone with only a cursory knowledge of Johnson knows that he wasn't a ko artist ,and that he seldom tried for the ko, as long as he was winning he was usually content to coast along on half throttle,rarely getting into top gear .


Lots of his opponents went rounds with him
Burns 14
Jeffries 15
Kaufman 20
Gardner 20
Ketchel12
Ferguson20

None of those fights were competitive.
Hanging your hat on McVey going the distance is silly ,and deep down you must know it is.

Contemporary reports which I posted, all said he barely won a round, out of all 3 fights,was badly punished,whilst Johnson was unmarked,and never in any trouble.

Hate can blind a person,and on Johnson you are Ray Charles!

I welcome dissenting opinions, what would be the use of being here if we all had the same opinion?

What I dismiss completely is an opinion such as yours, which is born solely out of hatred with no verified sources whatsoever to back it up,just a longstanding irrational aversion to Johnson

Show me something that backs up your warped claims and we can debate it ,otherwise your posts are just a collection of bile.
Post a counter to my posts instead of what you are doing all the time now, attacking other posters with silly personal insults via your biased replies to me.

Do that and we would have a real debate instead of what we have now, you being exposed as a pathological hater of Jack Johnson reduced to infantile name calling,like the other obsessed banned idiot in whose head," Lil Arthur" lives rent free.

Lets start anew,with primary sourced proof of both our claims.yours against mine,no BS ,no personal insults, just verified facts
This is an opportunity for you.You can get all that spite ,and venom out of your system in one single thread.
Come on do it. You know you'll feel better for it afterwards.

[QueensburyRules]

Dempsey sorta fouled Sharkey -just sharkey was ****** to drop his hands. Thats a tough one

Dempsey lowblowed him and chinned him before he could even complain

old ass trick

sharkey did hit him after the bell prior though

- - Hit Sharkey straight up the gut, legit.

Sharkey was a physical stud, but mentally lacking fundamental fight instincts. At least he had enough to put the Wills myth to rest...

[GhostofDempsey]

Nope I asked you for your sources for the following.


Who was your source that Smith heavily dropped Johnson to the canvas?

Which one stated McVey was competitive with Johnson?


Which source says Johnson struggled with Battling Jim Johnson?
You posted an anonymous AP wire report on the Johnson v Johnson fight,that is NOT a primary source.
I have the round by round summary of the fight taken from several ringside newspapers as the fight happened.That IS a primary source!

You posted nothing on the other two,because they are just your bilious personal opinion.


Anyone with only a cursory knowledge of Johnson knows that he wasn't a ko artist ,and that he seldom tried for the ko, as long as he was winning he was usually content to coast along on half throttle,rarely getting into top gear .


Lots of his opponents went rounds with him
Burns 14
Jeffries 15
Kaufman 20
Gardner 20
Ketchel12
Ferguson20

None of those fights were competitive.
Hanging your hat on McVey going the distance is silly ,and deep down you must know it is.

Contemporary reports which I posted, all said he barely won a round, out of all 3 fights,was badly punished,whilst Johnson was unmarked,and never in any trouble.

Hate can blind a person,and on Johnson you are Ray Charles!

I welcome dissenting opinions, what would be the use of being here if we all had the same opinion?

What I dismiss completely is an opinion such as yours, which is born solely out of hatred with no verified sources whatsoever to back it up,just a longstanding irrational aversion to Johnson

Show me something that backs up your warped claims and we can debate it ,otherwise your posts are just a collection of bile.
Post a counter to my posts instead of what you are doing all the time now, attacking other posters with silly personal insults via your biased replies to me.

Do that and we would have a real debate instead of what we have now, you being exposed as a pathological hater of Jack Johnson reduced to infantile name calling,like the other obsessed banned idiot in whose head," Lil Arthur" lives rent free.

Lets start anew,with primary sourced proof of both our claims.yours against mine,no BS ,no personal insults, just verified facts
This is an opportunity for you.You can get all that spite ,and venom out of your system in one single thread.
Come on do it. You know you'll feel better for it afterwards.

Another long copy and paste job from your McVey account I see. I saw some old posts where Moyle chewed you up and spit you out at that forum. He embarrassed you and you had to bow down. LOL

I didn't say Smith dropped Johnson hard to canvas, work on your reading comprehension. I said Gunboat Smith dropped him hard in a sparring session that Johnson’s manager cut short. If he sent Johnson through the ropes where did Johnson land? On the ceiling? You still haven't answered.

Which of my sources say Johnson struggled with Battling Jim? How about Pollack for one? In his words..."the two judges, Frantz-Reichel and Georges Oudin, rendered their decisions. One gave it to Jim Johnson because he was breathing better, lasted to the end, and dominated the sparring in the last round. The other judge called it a draw. Referee M. Maitrot shared the opinion that the fight was a draw." So one judge actually had Battling Jim winning and the other two called it a draw. Johnson was exhausted and nearly out on his feet with an injured left arm, yet you think Jack Johnson DIDN'T STRUGGLE? You are outside of your mind. Totally irrational. You can jam your newspaper articles, the judges and ref called the fight and a win for Battling Jim and two draws tells the story. Now argue with Pollack if you must. LOL

Same goes for McVey, I don't need a source, I shared my assessment. A novice with less than ten fights goes 20 rounds with the the best HW...3X. I'd call that competitive, especially for a novice. He was more competitive than Burns the overrated champion!

Don't start crying about name-calling now...you dished it out and now it comes back to you. Don't be a crybaby trying to play the victim here. You're the one who was banned on two sites for your incessant arguing and abhorrent behavior...not me!

[Willie Pep 229]

Jack Johnson refused to sign his contract for the Moran fight because it was the 13th day of the month.

They reached an agreement on the money, 30K plus 5K, but Johnson made everybody come back and sign on a different day.

New York Times, January 14th, 1914

I think when trying to evaluate this history we need to remember to keep our 'presentism' in check.

These cats were functioning under a sets of values and norms we don't really understand.

[Bronson66]

Another long copy and paste job from your McVey account I see. I saw some old posts where Moyle chewed you up and spit you out at that forum. He embarrassed you and you had to bow down. LOL

I didn't say Smith dropped Johnson hard to canvas, work on your reading comprehension. I said Gunboat Smith dropped him hard in a sparring session that Johnson’s manager cut short. If he sent Johnson through the ropes where did Johnson land? On the ceiling? You still haven't answered.

Which of my sources say Johnson struggled with Battling Jim? How about Pollack for one? In his words..."the two judges, Frantz-Reichel and Georges Oudin, rendered their decisions. One gave it to Jim Johnson because he was breathing better, lasted to the end, and dominated the sparring in the last round. The other judge called it a draw. Referee M. Maitrot shared the opinion that the fight was a draw." So one judge actually had Battling Jim winning and the other two called it a draw. Johnson was exhausted and nearly out on his feet with an injured left arm, yet you think Jack Johnson DIDN'T STRUGGLE? You are outside of your mind. Totally irrational. You can jam your newspaper articles, the judges and ref called the fight and a win for Battling Jim and two draws tells the story. Now argue with Pollack if you must. LOL

Same goes for McVey, I don't need a source, I shared my assessment. A novice with less than ten fights goes 20 rounds with the the best HW...3X. I'd call that competitive, especially for a novice. He was more competitive than Burns the overrated champion!

Don't start crying about name-calling now...you dished it out and now it comes back to you. Don't be a crybaby trying to play the victim here. You're the one who was banned on two sites for your incessant arguing and abhorrent behavior...not me!

Smith didn't drop Johnson hard or soft,he knocked him partially through the ropes and that's what he himself said in a taped interview in1972,he didn't land anywhere.


So you dismiss verified ringside round by round reports and base your opinion solely on Mcvey surviving till the end of the fight?


Being dropped multiple times,his face lopsided from a huge swelling on one side of it, and it being described as looking like a goat had chewed it, and as though he had been stung by a swarm of bees.
You discount that.

I gave you several examples of fighter who were totally outclassed in non competitive in fights,but of course you ignored that.
You discount multiple newspaper reports provided by Pollack to follow your agenda?
YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!
I'd like to point out that your original claim was Johnson was lucky to get the decision over Battling Jim.
Here is your statement.
"Should have lost to Battling Jim but was given a gift draw." Its a lie made up by you!


Now post where Adam says that in his book!

Adam never chewed me up and spat me out,we are Face Book friends and communicate.

If you have the first volume of his Johnson bios The Rise my name is in the acknowledgements.

I'm not crying about name calling I've told you several times I'm okay with it. What I pointed out was you spend half your posts insulting others when replying to me . lol
My behaviour is abhorrent? Those I argued with are now gone,banned what does that tell you?

Here you are disagreeing with 3 posters,calling one of them Sister,Racist and another Racial Baiter.

Look in the mirror hypocrite !

What I'm trying to do here is start to have a sensible debate with you ,in which both of us produce primary sources to back up our claims, primary sources with their provenance attached to them.
Now are you up for it or not?

Just cut the **** and answer .
Yes?
Or
No?

[GhostofDempsey]

Smith didnt drop Johnson hard or soft,he knocked him partially through the ropes and thats what he himself said in a taped interview in1972,he didn;t land anywhere.


So you dismiss verified ringside round by round reports and base your opinion solely on Mcvey surviving till the end of the fight?


,Being dropped multiple times,his face lopsided from a huge swelling on one side of it and it being described as looking like a goat had chewed it, and as though he had been stung by a swarm of bees.
You discount that.

I gave you several examples of fighter who were totally outclassed an not competitive in fights,but of course you ignored that.
You discount multiple newspaper reports provided by Pollack to follow you agenda?
YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!
I'd like to point out that your original claim was Johnson was lucky to get the decision over Battling Jim.
Now post where Adam says that in his book!

Adam never chewed me up and spat me out,we are Face Book friends and communicate.

If you have the first volume of his Johnson bios The Rise my name is in the acknowledgements.

I'm not crying about name calling I've told you several times I'm okay with it. What I pointed out was you spend half your posts insulting others when replying to me . lol
My behaviour is abhorrent? Those I argued with are now gone,banned what does that tell you?

Here you are disagreeing with 3 posters,calling one of them Sister,Racist and another Racial Baiter.

Look in the mirror hypocrite !

What I'm trying to do here is start to have a sensible debate with you ,in which both of us produce primary sources to back up our claims, primary sources with their provenance attached to them.
Now are you up for it or not?

Just cut the **** and answer .
Yes?
Or
No?

Smith said he knocked him through the ropes and damn near out of the Seal Rock building, that’s right from Heller’s interview which I posted here several times now. Keep up.

I said Moyle chewed you up, not Pollack, once again reading comprehension. I imagine you read those articles and books with the same sloppy and innacurate attention to detail. This makes you suspect and a non-reliable source. I’ve had to correct you and repeat myself several times. I won’t be playing this circle jerk game with you any longer. You’re a broken record.

How many more times do I need to tell you Pollack’s own words? It’s in his book and in this post.

IMG_3344.jpg

McVey did better than that overrated bum Burns did.

Still crying? One of your racist allies got his posts deleted and was banned. The other has no credibility and no one takes her seriously. She is a racist and only posts anonymous articles and repeats herself while ignoring others sources. She was also banned several times. Just like you. Your Ivich account was permanently banned…what does that tell you? Yeah, you’re in good company there Bronson, Ivich, or Incapable, or whatever your name is this week, lol.

[Bronson66]

Smith said he knocked him through the ropes and damn near out of the Seal Rock building, that’s right from Heller’s interview which I posted here several times now. Keep up.

I said Moyle chewed you up, not Pollack, once again reading comprehension. I imagine you read those articles and books with the same sloppy and innacurate attention to detail. This makes you suspect and a non-reliable source. I’ve had to correct you and repeat myself several times. I won’t be playing this circle jerk game with you any longer. You’re a broken record.

How many more times do I need to tell you Pollack’s own words? It’s in his book and in this post.

IMG_3344.jpg

McVey did better than that overrated bum Burns did.

Still crying? One of your racist allies got his posts deleted and was banned. The other has no credibility and no one takes her seriously. She is a racist and only posts anonymous articles and repeats herself while ignoring others sources. She was also banned several times. Just like you. Your Ivich account was permanently banned…what does that tell you? Yeah, you’re in good company there Bronson, Ivich, or Incapable, or whatever your name is this week, lol.

Moyle and I are Face book friends, he and I have never had a cross word, and I wrote a review for his Langford book, the only minor disagreement was over Langford's age,when we agreed his estimate of it was as close as could be ascertained..

Pollack never said ,or in anyway implied thatJohnson was lucky to get a draw with Battling Jim that was a lie of your own invention
I've had 2 user names since I first posted here about14 years ago Ivich and the one I have now ,
You are doing it again,insulting other posters via your replies to me.
You've done what I expected you to , turned tail and run,Well keep doing it you eunuch waste of space!

[Bronson66]

LMAO.

First of all, Pollack wasn't born at the time of the Johnson & Johnson fight. I wonder where he thinks Pollack got the reports from?


Second, the fight being called a draw doesn't mean anyone struggled. Especially since reports say Johnson clowned for the first 3 rounds and then stopped using one hand for the rest of the fight (which aligns with his claim he broke it in round 3). The most widely held reports weren't that he struggled, but that neither one was fighting and the people wanted their money back.

That is the exact truth!

[QueensburyRules]

The ref said he hit Sharkey in the leg.

What's also interesting is the ref literally has both hands on Dempsey pulling at him to give the warning for the low blow at the time that the final punch was delivered.

- - Then the ref is an idjit which most are along with judges and most boxing fans who complain and moan constantly about a sport they don't understand that they helped to create, ie much like U!

Clear shots straight up the gut as the video shows. Possibly they caught a portion of the belt line, but like I say, Sharkey was hurt bad enough to complain to the ref when Dempsey KOed him.