The great HW men who wouldn't quit.

[Willie Pep 229]

Conner Benn

. . . fighters are so focused on protecting their unbeaten records that they won’t take any chances. Fans believe that these three want the millions being given to them by Turki, but aren’t interested in fighting.

[Bundana]

Exactly yes. I believe the men were tougher and more hungry in the old days. Nowadays they are just after money and fame, apart from a few guys like Inoue.

Yes, that's what the "modern-bashers" like to say... but where's the proof, that this is true?

That things like toughness and courage are era-dependant, is highly doubtful, IMO. Anyway, it's something that can't be measured or proven one way or the other!

[Bronson66]

Do you respect guys like devin haney because i don't.

From what I have seen of Haney,and his Father no,I don't,nor do I respect FloydJnr,Naseem Hamed, Adrien Broner orTyson Fury

Talent without class.imo

[QueensburyRules]

From what I have seen of Haney,and his Father no,I don't,nor do I respect FloydJnr,Naseem Hamed, Adrien Broner orTyson Fury

Talent without class.imo

- - Coming up Fury was a lotta fun, a natural comedian in between being a nonstop puncher.

Then he entered his d ru g era and became this No Man Born of his Mother driveling drool and AJ ducker.

[solidman]

Yes, that's what the "modern-bashers" like to say... but where's the proof, that this is true?

That things like toughness and courage are era-dependant, is highly doubtful, IMO. Anyway, it's something that can't be measured or proven one way or the other!

Where are the Arturo gattis? Where are the carmen basilios? Where are the Jake La Mottas? Where are the Marvin haglers or Roberto durans? If you think fighters are as tough as they used to be you are wrong.

[Willie Pep 229]

Where are the Arturo gattis? Where are the carmen basilios? Where are the Jake La Mottas? Where are the Marvin haglers or Roberto durans? If you think fighters are as tough as they used to be you are wrong.

Because I started this thread I am going to interject and get you up to speed.

A few months back "Them Apples" and "Bundana" went at it over this topic.

I personally, in the end, agreed with Bundana, based on the point he was trying to make to you here, it just can't be proved empirically.

BUT . . .

I decided to reopen the mess by arguing purely from an anecdotal POV. I.e. Who could create a longer list of tough guys, past or present?

Notice how your argument moved towards pointing out past individuals. The argument seems to work if you argue it anecdotally, but you can't really make an empirical case.

I believe Bundana is correct, we really can't 'prove' it one way or the other. But the past does seem to have a longer list of tough guys and the list thins the further into the future you go.

So when I created my post I expected I might push Bundana's button; but I was certain I would push Apples' fer-sur.

But Apple didn't show. (I truly hope he is OK and living well.)

You would have enjoyed Apple's argument. It involved nutrition, socializing, world war, bone structure, and a whole bunch of other over the top beliefs. It was fun.

[Tatabanya]

Tyson?

Yessir.

Tyson is described as a quitter because of the Bite Fight. But he didn't quit there - he snapped. He only quit in his very last fight, against McBride.

Took bad beatings from Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield (first fight) and Lennox Lewis. I can't recall him quitting in those fights. He fought until the very end.

[Tatabanya]

I would add George Foreman to the list. In Kinshasa he was still trying to knock Ali out even after having emptied his tank completely. And - needless to say - he didn't quit when he was being outboxed to death by Michael Moorer.

EDIT: Oh, and I won't even mention the Ron Lyle war...

[Bundana]

Because I started this thread I am going to interject and get you up to speed.

A few months back "Them Apples" and "Bundana" went at it over this topic.

I personally, in the end, agreed with Bundana, based on the point he was trying to make to you here, it just can't be proved empirically.

BUT . . .

I decided to reopen the mess by arguing purely from an anecdotal POV. I.e. Who could create a longer list of tough guys, past or present?

Notice how your argument moved towards pointing out past individuals. The argument seems to work if you argue it anecdotally, but you can't really make an empirical case.

I believe Bundana is correct, we really can't 'prove' it one way or the other. But the past does seem to have a longer list of tough guys and the list thins the further into the future you go.

So when I created my post I expected I might push Bundana's button; but I was certain I would push Apples' fer-sur.

But Apple didn't show. (I truly hope he is OK and living well.)

You would have enjoyed Apple's argument. It involved nutrition, socializing, world war, bone structure, and a whole bunch of other over the top beliefs. It was fun.

LOL... so you remember the interaction I have had with apples over the "old vs new" subject? I quite enjoyed that (very long!) discussion - thanks to apples keeping it clean, and not resorting to namecalling. Which, unfortunately, seems to be the way many heated debates here are often ruined! As you say, at times it was rather fun - with outlandish claims that sometimes were difficult to take seriously!

Anyway, no need to rehash all those old arguments... suffice it to say, that I believe things like chin, punching power, courage, will to win, etc. are unrelated to era. So (as you already know) I don't by into the idea, that today's boxers are gutless sissies - compared to back in the day, when they had REAL fighters!

[Willie Pep 229]

Yessir.

Tyson is described as a quitter because of the Bite Fight. But he didn't quit there - he snapped. He only quit in his very last fight, against McBride.

Took bad beatings from Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield (first fight) and Lennox Lewis. I can't recall him quitting in those fights. He fought until the very end.

You caught me.

I went to ChatGPT to test my theory and asked for HW Champions who quit on their stool.

The AI came back with Tyson, but as you note, it pointed to the McBride fight.

I didn't think that controversial enough so to get my thread going, so I cheated and pointed to the ear bite fight.

The AI didn't see that ear bite fight as a 'quit' either.

So, you don't think Tyson's 'second' bite was a disguised quit? I did.