The great HW men who wouldn't quit.

[JAB5239]

Dude, Pollack uses sources and picks the one that suits his agenda the best. He under reports or omits anything negative on his subject material. That is part of the reason he is a fan boy.

He showed me his four sources for this part of the book. They different greatly from each other. I told him via DM how you come to that conclusion where your sources say different things and describe his appearance differently!
One of his " primary sources " describes Johnson as a 6'3" big man if my memory serves. Point being primary sources can have errors in them.


Johnson quit , two authors who researched the matter came to that conclusion from their sources which are listed in thier books.

That's all. END Email them if you want to know more of you unkown/


Read his book on Martin Hart's win over Johnson. He might contradict what he was in his book about Johnson.

Same subject, same man, different books. And a different read, see my point?

Likely not. You love a wife beating freemasons. Because you are one.

You are so full of crap I can smell you thru my phone. You really sound like you think he's a faboy here, don't you?

Adam,
Thank you for posting what you have. I view you as a pragmatic and well informed poster. Unlike McVey you do not use double standard or selective parts of newspapers or prints to make your point without examining the other side of the coin. As I said before, sometimes primary sources vary! These reports offer false information and sometimes contradict each other. It will be tough to make a definitive conclusion here. -Mendoza (aka Dr.Z)

The fact is you want to believe 2 books with no primary sources against primary sources that directly negate your assertion.

Know when you're beaten Mendoza. -McGrain

Let me guess, Matt McGrain is also biased and a fanboy, right? Youve been told by two well known boxing historians that you're wrong, yet youwould rather believe two books with NO PRIMARY sources just to take a shot against the great Jack Johnson.

By the way, do we have a bet?

[Dr Z]

You are so full of crap I can smell you thru my phone. You really sound like you think he's a faboy here, don't you?

Adam,
Thank you for posting what you have. I view you as a pragmatic and well informed poster. Unlike McVey you do not use double standard or selective parts of newspapers or prints to make your point without examining the other side of the coin. As I said before, sometimes primary sources vary! These reports offer false information and sometimes contradict each other. It will be tough to make a definitive conclusion here. -Mendoza (aka Dr.Z)

The fact is you want to believe 2 books with no primary sources against primary sources that directly negate your assertion.

Know when you're beaten Mendoza. -McGrain

Let me guess, Matt McGrain is also biased and a fanboy, right? Youve been told by two well known boxing historians that you're wrong, yet youwould rather believe two books with NO PRIMARY sources just to take a shot against the great Jack Johnson.

By the way, do we have a bet?

You don't think Pollack is a fan boy?!




Quoting a post from 10+ years ago, when he was writing the book does not reflect his views after he wrote the book and became a fanboy of his subject material.

ALSO Matt McGrain is no historian! What book did he write? He is not well known either.


Press on any if you really want to discuss this matter further , I suggest you email Ward and Roberts. They may reply and they can defend their views o n Johnson quitting better than i can since they wrote it.

Got that, Cowboy

Bye

[JAB5239]

You don't think Pollack is a fan boy?!




Quoting a post from 10+ years ago, when he was writing the book does not reflect his views after he wrote the book and became a fanboy of his subject material.

ALSO Matt McGrain is no historian! What book did he write? He is not well known either.


Press on any if you really want to discuss this matter further , I suggest you email Ward and Roberts. They may reply and they can defend their views o n Johnson quitting better than i can since they wrote it.

Got that, Cowboy

Bye

Ok, so you say Pollack became a "fanboy" after he wrote the book. He was objective when writing it though and meticulously well researched using primary sources his book. What are the primary sources to Johnson quitting against Haynes in Papa Jack and Unforgivable blackness? That right, you don't know! You ignore primary so you can roll on with your agenda against Johnson. BRILLIANT!!!! And this is why you hold no value as a poster here nor ESB.

Sure, McGrain is not a historian because he didn't write a book...lmao!! His knowledge and contributions are very well respected in boxing history circles. You sound bitter because he banned you from ESB because of your outrageous lies, accusations and inability to provide a primary source.

Why would i need to email Ward? He never says Johnson quit in his book.

So, does this mean no bet?

[Bronson66]

Dude, Pollack uses sources and picks the one that suits his agenda the best. He under reports or omits anything negative on his subject material. That is part of the reason he is a fan boy.

He showed me his four sources for this part of the book. They different greatly from each other. I told him via DM how you come to that conclusion where your sources say different things and describe his appearance differently!
One of his " primary sources " describes Johnson as a 6'3" big man if my memory serves. Point being primary sources can have errors in them.


Johnson quit , two authors who researched the matter came to that conclusion from their sources which are listed in thier books.

That's all. END Email them if you want to know more of you unkown/


Read his book on Martin Hart's win over Johnson. He might contradict what he was in his book about Johnson.

Same subject, same man, different books. And a different read, see my point?

Likely not. You love a wife beating freemasons. Because you are one.

Lets answer you accusations one by one
1".Dude, Pollack uses sources and picks the one that suits his agenda the best. He under reports or omits anything negative on his subject material."
A.You haven't read any of Pollack's books you admitted that to me.So how do you know if he "under reports ,"a new Z word? Or omits anything?

2."He showed me his four sources for this part of the book. They different greatly from each other."

A.I have the book ,the sources do not differ about the fight at all . Pollack cites The Daily Inter Ocean,The Chicago Record/Herald, The Chicago Chronicle,The Chicago Times,and The Chicago Tribune.All of them broadly agree on the fight and NONE OF THEM SAY JOHNSON QUIT!

There is no news paper report in either Unforgivable Blackness or Papa Jack that says Johnson quit.I know because I have both books.
You are lying through your teeth when you say there is,something you constanty do.

Why would we need to contact Ward or Roberts? When their respective books do not say Johnson quit?

The one who needs to produce evidence to support his case is YOU! YOU HAVENT AND YOU WONT!

Where can I buy a book about Martin Hart?

I'm now a Wife Beater?

What is this obsession with the Free Masons?

Nobody but you ever mentions them.

You who can barely read and write ,who cannot formulate a sentence without spelling and grammar mistakes ,are holding court on books you haven't read,dismissing primary sources in them because they directly contradict your hate agenda ,all the while producing no primary sources of your own!

McGrain had you pegged from the start,as his statement when he banned you for life." I bitterly regret allowing that fool back on here,it will never happen again ,"proves!

Here is a little about Matt.
www.boxing247.com › weblog › archivesWelcome To Hell: Stanley Ketchel In 1908 ... - Boxing ArchivesMay 21, 2011 · By Matt McGrain:
Members – Transnational Boxing Rankings Board


Matt McGrain, a boxing historian, analyst, and lifelong student of the sport, is a writer for East Side Boxing, Boxing.com, and The Sweet Science. McGrain lives in the Highlands of Scotland.

tss.ib.tv › boxing › featured-boxing-articles-boxingThe 50 Greatest Welterweights of All-Time Part Five: 10-1

• Author: Matt Mcgrain

Matt McGrain


Published
9 years ago on

April 16, 2016
By
The Sweet Science
“Scotland based correspondent Matt McGrain, a lifetime boxing fan, has been covering the sport for various sites for more than a decade.

As interested in the history of the sport as he is in the current scene, Matt’s favourite fighters include Charley Burley, Israel Vazquez and Roman Gonzalez, who he predicted would one day scale the p4p heights when he was still fighting at 105lbs.

Sad to see Floyd Mayweather go, and expecting to see Manny Pacquiao close behind, Matt is happy to be covering the fights for The Sweet Science at a time when a new generation of stars is emerging.”

1. tss.ib.tv › writers2 › 21987-matt-mcgrainMatt McGrain | Boxing News, articles, videos, rankings and ...
   
   
   Apr 16, 2016 · In 2005, he was honored by the Boxing Writers Association of America, which bestowed the Nat Fleischer Award for career excellence in boxing journalism upon him. He was the first Internet writer ever to receive the honor.
   • Author: The Sweet Science

NB Hank Kaplan and Jack Fiske never wrote books,both are considered top historians.


You get more ridiculous with every post!

[Dr Z]

Bronson66

Name a fight in which the police entered the ring because a fight was fixed?

I did not say Kloi***e vs. Johsnon was FIXED. I can name many fights where the police entered the ring. Johnson's fight with shimpy 5'7" 168 pound Burns is just one of many examples.

[Dr Z]

JAB5239 ,

McGrian is a " well known boxing historian ", you say?!

This could be the wildest claim you have made! No boxing historian rates Brittish Mickey Walker in the top 40 heavyweights of all time, but he did! This tell serious boxing scirbes / histrians he does not know what he is taliking about.

I post where I wish.

As stated Papa Jack and Unforgivable Blackess write Johnson quit. Deal with it.

I told you to contact the writers, but I can see you don't seem to listen very well.

Now you can press on quouting me and others form ESB posts that are 10+ years old.

[Bronson66]

I did not say Kloi***e vs. Johsnon was FIXED. I can name many fights where the police entered the ring. Johnson's fight with shimpy 5'7" 168 pound Burns is just one of many examples.

I never suggested you did. I asked you in which fights did the police enter the ring because a fight was fixed?

Which is what you stated.
Here it is!

Complete with grammar mistake.lol
"The police entered the ring, they did so on many fixed fights"

You don't even know what you have posted do you! lol

I ask you again to produce one?

The police did not enter the fight between Burns and Johnson because the fight was fixed,they did so because Burns was getting the S*** beat out of him!

Still no primary sourced newspapers that say Johnson quit.
Still no reply to Jab's and my posts.

[JAB5239]

I did not say Kloi***e vs. Johsnon was FIXED. I can name many fights where the police entered the ring. Johnson's fight with shimpy 5'7" 168 pound Burns is just one of many examples.

You certainly implied it, didnt you? Why write this at all?

"I said, only a small sample which you make a conclusion on? The police entered the ring they did so on many fixed fights and fights where a guy was going through the motions."

Schmuck.

[Dr Z]

You certainly implied it, didnt you? Why write this at all?

"I said, only a small sample which you make a conclusion on? The police entered the ring they did so on many fixed fights and fights where a guy was going through the motions."

Schmuck.

Shmendrik. I was not repyling to you.

Now maybe you can tell me why McGrain is a well known boxing historian.

Maybe you can admit that two book says Johnson quit. One of the goes into details on his process.

Maybe you listen to me and contact the wirtrers as I listed their sources.

But then again I say you won't!

[JAB5239]

JAB5239 ,

McGrian is a " well known boxing historian ", you say?!

This could be the wildest claim you have made! No boxing historian rates Brittish Mickey Walker in the top 40 heavyweights of all time, but he did! This tell serious boxing scirbes / histrians he does not know what he is taliking about.

I post where I wish.

As stated Papa Jack and Unforgivable Blackess write Johnson quit. Deal with it.

I told you to contact the writers, but I can see you don't seem to listen very well.

Now you can press on quouting me and others form ESB posts that are 10+ years old.

First off, what or who is British Mickey Walker? Second, rating fighters is subjective. I don't know McGrains criteria, but I'm sure he could make a compelling case for Walker who has better wins at heavyweight than your hero Vits.

You post where you wish? You don't post on ESB under Mendoza anymore, do you?

Lmao....I actually have sent emails to Randy Roberts and the IBRO concerning this new line of BS. You say it's in both books, tell me what pages and exactly what was said. Than tell me which primary source was used to make the conclusion. Wanna bet you won't?

Why would I use the information I found on the internet? What does it matter how long ago it was? Has something changed from the first time you were forced to admit Johnson didn't quit and that the police stopped it and now? If so please enlighten us. Because from where I stand it sounds like the same old crap you tried to pull there, that you're trying to run with and get away with here. You should be ashamed of yourself. Know when you're beaten.