ABC org and Vit Klit lovers and Lewis haters...

[JAB5239]

If Klitlickers could read, they'd be really pissed about this thread The Lennox haters? We know what their issue is: He wasn't a REAL Brit/European is (ie not having skin darker than milk) and they'd never accept him as one of their own. Hence why they needed their Great Whyte Copes in the Klits/Eastern Euros to play Captain Save-A-Ho for their Aryan pride.

They'll avoid this thread because it exposes their hypocrisy and double standards.

[billeau2]

- - It OK U like sissy fighters, but best not advertise it.

Jeez Lucy I told you to clean the radiator out before using as a stil!

[billeau2]

They'll avoid this thread because it exposes their hypocrisy and double standards.

Yup. Problem is people seldom realize that when calling fighters out on the carpet, most of them do the same things, just not for the reasons people think. In Vitali's case my theory is that he never considered boxing to be his main calling. Therefore he wanted to not encounter real resistance. Lewis was the exception concerning Vitali: he really hated Lewis because Lewis represented the opposite. Lewis was all in. The Klit brothers always were rude and arrogant towards Lewis. And in Vitali's universe Lewis owed him.

Any clear thinking individual would reason out that Lewis had no real need for either Klit brother, but especially for one that never really lived up to expectations. The fact that lewis obliged Vitali a chance at all speaks to lewis being a paragon of competative virtue. Vitalie was after all, considered the better of the two by many, and Vlad was never going to fight lewis after all his missteps.

Vitali needed Lewis more than the opposite. And when he lost he decided he was owed a rematch. A complacent media went along with this being totally disrespectful to a man who at least carried (Marg this is for ya) a legacy during his reign. Holyfield like Lewis did not duck fighters. meanwhile Vitali and his brother fought these paper champions and second rate fighters at the bequest of organizations that IMO abused their power.

[Biledriver]

Jeez Lucy I told you to clean the radiator out before using as a stil!

.....

[Biledriver]

Just to be super clear and in plain speech; I do not believe champions are afraid of physical punishment.

Yeah, that idea is absurd. If anyone is afraid of physical punishment, the fight game is the wrong sport for them.....and they'll be out of the sport real quick.

[Dr Z]

Wow, for all the ABC lovers, Lewis detractors because he retired, and Vitaly Klitschko lovers......please explain this!! And don't ever talk about Lewis retiring to avoid Vits again!

https://www.boxingscene.com/articles...itschkos-ducks

Your hater teeth are showing again.

Vitali had an injury and had to pull out of this fight. He would be surely beaten the 50-9 ( 6 ko'd ) Rhaman

There was no demand after Vitali's first retirement to make this match. That is the reason they never fought.

I rate Lennox Lewis who lost to Rhaman is a guy highly . ( see my era rankings below )

Meanwhile Wlad 1-0 vs. Rhaman.

Lewis 1-1


--------------------------


Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals. The criteria for the ranking is as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter passed their prime. 30%

3 ) The distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matters most to fighters, not on film. 10%
I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings a bit, as this is the 1st draft. So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize-ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson - No film in the ring, only walking around.
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan - Mock sparring and hitting a bag only
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin - No film
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard - No film
10. Griffin - No film
11. Maher - Was filmed, never saw him
12. Choynski - filmed in sparring only
13. Hart - No film on
14. McCoy - Was filmed in the ring, spars with Corbett
15. O’Brien


1906-1926 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb - Training clips only
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske - No film on, I think
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles - Moves to 1946 -1965
3. Schmeling
4. M Baer
5. Carnera
6. Godfrey
7. J Sharkey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10. Conn
11. *****
12. Pastor
13. Farr
14. Loughran
15. Galento

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Walcott
5. Charles
6. Johansson
7. Moore
8. Ray - No film on, only a radio broadcast
9. Terrell
10. Machen
11. Folley
12. Williams
13. H. Johnson
14. Valdes
15. D Jones



1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. Cooney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6. Byrd
7. Moorer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14. Ruiz
15. McCall




2004-2024 – Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 2 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after the Klitshcko’s come 2026. It is possible young pros such as Joshua will rate in the next 4 years. Hopefully, we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko 3. Usyk
4. Povetkin
5. Joshua* Still active
6. Fury* Still active
7. Chagaev
8. Sanders
9. Ibragimov
10. Haye
11. Adamek
12. Chambers
13. Brewster
14. Peter
15. Wilder *

[Bronson66]

Yup. Problem is people seldom realize that when calling fighters out on the carpet, most of them do the same things, just not for the reasons people think. In Vitali's case my theory is that he never considered boxing to be his main calling. Therefore he wanted to not encounter real resistance. Lewis was the exception concerning Vitali: he really hated Lewis because Lewis represented the opposite. Lewis was all in. The Klit brothers always were rude and arrogant towards Lewis. And in Vitali's universe Lewis owed him.

Any clear thinking individual would reason out that Lewis had no real need for either Klit brother, but especially for one that never really lived up to expectations. The fact that lewis obliged Vitali a chance at all speaks to lewis being a paragon of competative virtue. Vitalie was after all, considered the better of the two by many, and Vlad was never going to fight lewis after all his missteps.

Vitali needed Lewis more than the opposite. And when he lost he decided he was owed a rematch. A complacent media went along with this being totally disrespectful to a man who at least carried (Marg this is for ya) a legacy during his reign. Holyfield like Lewis did not duck fighters. meanwhile Vitali and his brother fought these paper champions and second rate fighters at the bequest of organizations that IMO abused their power.

No demand for Vitali to fight Rahman?
How much demand was there for him to fight Sosnowski ,and Briggs?

"Briggs, the former two-time titleholder, had done nothing in years to warrant this title shot, but because the heavyweight division is so weak on credible contenders, and because Briggs has a name, he got the fight."
What had Sosnowski done to deserve a title shot?

[Willow The Wisp]

Your hater teeth are showing again.

Vitali had an injury and had to pull out of this fight. He would be surely beaten the 50-9 ( 6 ko'd ) Rhaman

There was no demand after Vitali's first retirement to make this match. That is the reason they never fought.

I rate Lennox Lewis who lost to Rhaman is a guy highly . ( see my era rankings below )

Meanwhile Wlad 1-0 vs. Rhaman.

Lewis 1-1


--------------------------


Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals. The criteria for the ranking is as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter passed their prime. 30%

3 ) The distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matters most to fighters, not on film. 10%
I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings a bit, as this is the 1st draft. So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize-ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson - No film in the ring, only walking around.
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan - Mock sparring and hitting a bag only
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin - No film
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard - No film
10. Griffin - No film
11. Maher - Was filmed, never saw him
12. Choynski - filmed in sparring only
13. Hart - No film on
14. McCoy - Was filmed in the ring, spars with Corbett
15. O’Brien


1906-1926 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb - Training clips only
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske - No film on, I think
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles - Moves to 1946 -1965
3. Schmeling
4. M Baer
5. Carnera
6. Godfrey
7. J Sharkey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10. Conn
11. *****
12. Pastor
13. Farr
14. Loughran
15. Galento

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Walcott
5. Charles
6. Johansson
7. Moore
8. Ray - No film on, only a radio broadcast
9. Terrell
10. Machen
11. Folley
12. Williams
13. H. Johnson
14. Valdes
15. D Jones



1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. Cooney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6. Byrd
7. Moorer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14. Ruiz
15. McCall




2004-2024 – Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 2 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after the Klitshcko’s come 2026. It is possible young pros such as Joshua will rate in the next 4 years. Hopefully, we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko 3. Usyk
4. Povetkin
5. Joshua* Still active
6. Fury* Still active
7. Chagaev
8. Sanders
9. Ibragimov
10. Haye
11. Adamek
12. Chambers
13. Brewster
14. Peter
15. Wilder *

While I don't agree with the rankings, a appreciate anyone's efforts when putting itout there.

[Biledriver]

Thanks to another poster, I see Dr Z is citing his usual sources..... Works Cited.jpg

[JAB5239]

Your hater teeth are showing again.

Vitali had an injury and had to pull out of this fight. He would be surely beaten the 50-9 ( 6 ko'd ) Rhaman

There was no demand after Vitali's first retirement to make this match. That is the reason they never fought.

I rate Lennox Lewis who lost to Rhaman is a guy highly . ( see my era rankings below )

Meanwhile Wlad 1-0 vs. Rhaman.

Lewis 1-1


--------------------------


Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals. The criteria for the ranking is as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter passed their prime. 30%

3 ) The distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matters most to fighters, not on film. 10%
I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings a bit, as this is the 1st draft. So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize-ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson - No film in the ring, only walking around.
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan - Mock sparring and hitting a bag only
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin - No film
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard - No film
10. Griffin - No film
11. Maher - Was filmed, never saw him
12. Choynski - filmed in sparring only
13. Hart - No film on
14. McCoy - Was filmed in the ring, spars with Corbett
15. O’Brien


1906-1926 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3. J Johnson
4. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb - Training clips only
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske - No film on, I think
13. Godfrey
14. Norfolk
15. Smith

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles - Moves to 1946 -1965
3. Schmeling
4. M Baer
5. Carnera
6. Godfrey
7. J Sharkey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10. Conn
11. *****
12. Pastor
13. Farr
14. Loughran
15. Galento

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Walcott
5. Charles
6. Johansson
7. Moore
8. Ray - No film on, only a radio broadcast
9. Terrell
10. Machen
11. Folley
12. Williams
13. H. Johnson
14. Valdes
15. D Jones



1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Page
10. Coetzee
11. Shavers
12. Lyle
13. Cooney
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6. Byrd
7. Moorer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14. Ruiz
15. McCall




2004-2024 – Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 2 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after the Klitshcko’s come 2026. It is possible young pros such as Joshua will rate in the next 4 years. Hopefully, we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Klitschko 3. Usyk
4. Povetkin
5. Joshua* Still active
6. Fury* Still active
7. Chagaev
8. Sanders
9. Ibragimov
10. Haye
11. Adamek
12. Chambers
13. Brewster
14. Peter
15. Wilder *

You're calling me a hater because I'm calling out a double standards? That's funny. Lewis retired after winning and you think he should have given Vits a rematch. Why do you think it's ok for Vits to keep ducking Rahman? He was hurt? Sure. He had plenty of chances to reschedule. In one instance he said he couldn't be ready to fight by a certain date and when Rahman scheduled a different fight he was miraculously ably to be ready against a different opponent. All the while the WBC was breaking it's own rules. Funny you have nothing to say about that.

I enjoyed watching Vits. But he never strived for greatness. And there is no way i can see rating Vits over guys like Wlad,Usyk, Fury, and possibly not Wilder. All took more chances and were more successful in my opinion.

I wonder, did you even read the article? And if so why not address those points? The fact is you can't reasonably do it and any attempt will show your double standards.