How many fighters have ever been P4P best in the world?

[DeeMoney]

I always felt like the whole P4P thing was a way for people to acknowledge the other weight classes. Originally the "champ" was the heavyweight champ of the world. The irony was that the most skilled fighters were seldom heavyweights.

If P4P is a sticking point as a term I could interchange it with, "best relative to their weight class".

[The D3vil]

So I know I'm the one who posed the question, but after doing so I tried to figure it out, I did it just for the 1900s (list below). Please note, this is my opinion, opinions may vary, but I'd love to hear thoughts, critiques, etc. I put reasoning for some of them, others I think are pretty obvious. Please note, these aren't the Ring ratings for P4P, these are who I feel (and probably at times most would accept) as being the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And yes, I know the term didn't exist for most of the time, but we as rational observers can make judgements

Fighter	Years	Reason
Joe Gans	1900-1906	Starts to age out, Langford passes middle of the year
Sam Langford	1906-1913	Moved up to heavyweight regularly, not the best heavyweight so new P4P needed
Johnny Kilbane	1913-1916	Leonard not quite there yet, he's probably just a smidge better than anyone in the world
Benny Leonard	1916-1918
Harry Greb	1918-1923
Gene Tunney	1923-1927
Tommy Loughran	1927-1929	Tunney retires at the top, Loughran next best P4P. Holds on to it till he permanently moves up to Heavy, where he isnt the best
Mickey Walker	1929-1931	P4P best after Loughran moves up to a weight where he is no longer dominant
Barney Ross	1931-1936
Henry Armstrong	1936-1940
Joe Louis	1940-1941	Close to being Conn, but he moves up to heavy right as he wouldve passed Armstrong, gotta give the nod to Louis as being better.
Ray Robinson	1941-1952	Sadly coincides with Pep and Charles, but he is just consistently better (though wonder if there were times they peaked above him)
Archie Moore	1952-1955	Thought maybe Saddler or Marciano. Moore slightly ahead though
Ray Robinson	1955-1959	Not as good as previous run, but slightly ahead of Marciano and some up and comers
Carlos Ortiz	1959-1961
Eder Jofre	1961-1963
Muhammad Ali	1963-1967
Emile Griffith	1967-1969	Ortiz, Griffith, Tiger all on downside, Frazier, Napoles, Monzon not quite there yet, Griffith seems to be best at this time
Jose Napoles	1969-1972	Passes up Griffith before he beats him in the ring
Carlos Monzon	1972-1974
Roberto Duran	1974-1980	Sometime around here Duran reaches peak, passes Monzon
Ray Leonard	1980-1982	Duran no longer the dominant LW, SRL moves past him
Marvin Hagler	1982-1986	Spinks may have a claim, also Hearns as a SWW for a while
Tyson/Holyfield/Chavez?	1986-1988	Hagler aging out, one of these three is best, can't figure which one though
Julio Cesar Chavez	1988-1992	By now Chavez emerges as P4P
Pernell Whittaker	1992-1994
Roy Jones Jr	1994-2002

After RJJ it may be Hop for a year or two, then its Manny/Floyd time, but I aint gonna get into that battle right here.

I like the list, but it feels like '63 was too early to have Ali as P4P #1.

He didn't even beat Liston until '64.

It feels like somebody like Griffith would've had a better argument that early.

[DeeMoney]

I like the list, but it feels like '63 was too early to have Ali as P4P #1.

He didn't even beat Liston until '64.

It feels like somebody like Griffith would've had a better argument that early.

I could see that. I could feasibly see Griffith, Ortiz, or Jofre there as well as Ali.

[GhostofDempsey]

I’d say Blackburn and Langford from 1900 - 1915. Greb for the next decade. Ross and Armstrong during the 30’s. The 40’s split between Robinson and Pep. The 50’s Moore and Charles. For the 60’s Jofre and Griffith. The 70’s is mostly Dura. 80’s is shared amongst Leonard, Hagler, Chavez, M. Spinks. The 90’s would be Jones Jr., De La Hoya. 2000’s it’s Manny and MAB.

[Willow The Wisp]

Willie boy, you put a lot effort into a piece of garbage, son. In other words, this list isn't even worthy of a piece of trash. I hate to say that, because you are one of my favorite posters. But not this time.

Are you saying this is someone else's list? Whew! I just saw the reference. Thank God, lad!

Wow, Schmeling? Carmen Basilio, wowee! Jack Sharkey, double wowee! Double on Bobo Olsen, incredulous! on Ingomar, Christ! Benvenuiti was not. No not ever. Pretty fair fighter but not that level. Bowe, no, not ever! I never thought of Foreman as a P4P great either. James Toney? Ahem!! Forrest is dead but no P4P great, please! Then we come across Glen Johnson and Ricky Hatton! Oh, yeah, they're P4P greats, just ask anybody!This list has no standing and was obviously composed by someone with personal involvement. It is no P4P list at all, but might possibly serve as a fighter of the year list. Congratulations, you did not write it.


1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2) zz0.yznjq65uylqzz

The Ring Fighter of the year.

[Marchegiano]

If P4P is a sticking point as a term I could interchange it with, "best relative to their weight class".

Nah, I took the easy way out while adding some anecdotal info.


I noted it was either my very short and selective list that allows for breaks or a much longer one that has decided there must always be a best. That second takes more effort and I was being lazy while bumping the thread. There is absolute nothing wrong with your word choice or usage.

[Willie Pep 229]

Willie boy, you put a lot effort into a piece of garbage, son. In other words, this list isn't even worthy of a piece of trash. I hate to say that, because you are one of my favorite posters. But not this time.

Are you saying this is someone else's list? Whew! I just saw the reference. Thank God, lad!

Wow, Schmeling? Carmen Basilio, wowee! Jack Sharkey, double wowee! Double on Bobo Olsen, incredulous! on Ingomar, Christ! Benvenuiti was not. No not ever. Pretty fair fighter but not that level. Bowe, no, not ever! I never thought of Foreman as a P4P great either. James Toney? Ahem!! Forrest is dead but no P4P great, please! Then we come across Glen Johnson and Ricky Hatton! Oh, yeah, they're P4P greats, just ask anybody!This list has no standing and was obviously composed by someone with personal involvement. It is no P4P list at all, but might possibly serve as a fighter of the year list. Congratulations, you did not write it.


1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2) zz0.yznjq65uylqzz

You create subject lists based on your "expert" opinion and then you call his list grabage without putting forth any effort to find where it came from? You need to man up and apologize.

[billeau2]

If P4P is a sticking point as a term I could interchange it with, "best relative to their weight class".

My bad I should have read the instructions better.

[billeau2]

Hard for me to answer. Cannot really account for the many factors that change over time. I do think there might be subtle differences between the ratio you want described and "the best." Sometimes they probably correlate almost, or, exactly, but not necessarily always.

[Anomalocaris]

From when he iced Cuevas until he lost to Ray in that remarkable see-saw battle Tommy was regarded as the P4P best and rightly so.

He was regarded by many as INVINCIBLE.

It just boils my piss he took too much notice of his entourage and came in far too light at 145.

Those 2 pounds could have changed history.