How many fighters have ever been P4P best in the world?

[Nash out]

For for the sake of convo and context, since it became an actual ranking; 15 (or 16)

Mike Tyson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquaio
Roman Gonzalez
Gennady Golovkin
Canelo Alvarez
Vasyl Lomachenko
Terrance Crawford
Oleksander Usyk

Can't remember if Inoue ever has.

Was Andre Ward not very briefly after he beat Kovalev? Again, Inoue maybe at some point briefly as well. In fact, several of the names you listed will have been short stints. Since Mayweather nobody has had a true, long hold on it. I'd definitely say Golovkin (as you included) was at one point as well and it's a shame he never got going 5-7 years earlier. Nash out - His Majesty

[Willow The Wisp]

For the sake of this argument, lets assume that at any given time there is one fighter who is the best pound for pound in the world. Furthermore, lets assume that being pound for pound best in the world is determined by how good that fighter is at that time relative to their weight; not necessarily how good their resume is, as that could reward fighters who are past their prime but had a good run and are just winding down their career.

With this in mind, how many fighters (lets say since 1900) have been at one time or another the best pound for pound in the world? This probably lends to you listing who they were and when they no longer held that title.

Now a couple things, having a loss doesn't necessarily mean you lose the title. We are looking at the fighter as they consistently are and assume that sometimes fighters have an off night. For example I would have SRR as the best P4P during the early 40s, and that stretch wouldve been continuous before '43 and after; even though he lost to Lamotta in February that year I still feel he was consistently the best fighter in the world at that time, and for me I wouldnt move him off that line for just one loss. Sometimes the best have an off night, but I guess thats easier to measure back when fighters fought more often.
Conversely, I don't think a fighter needs to lose to be moved off the top spot. If someone else comes around who has surpassed them, if they move up to a weight class where they arent as good, or they just slow down a bit but keep winning, you don't need to default to them as still your P4P king. A fighter need not lose this crown in the ring, and most often times they won't, theyll probably slip in ability behind the new king before they actually lose in the ring.

So how about it, how many men have ever been the best boxer in the world? Who were they? And when did they carry this crown?

I won't get into my thoughts about the concept of P4P because it isn't anything to do about your inquiry.
But this would be a good place to BEGIN the construction of a list dating to 1900, well before the term was popularized:

The Ring magazine was established in 1922 and has named a Fighter of the Year since 1928, which this list covers. The award, selected by the magazine editors, is based on a boxer's performance in the ring.

• 1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2)

[DeeMoney]

I won't get into my thoughts about the concept of P4P because it isn't anything to do about your inquiry.
But this would be a good place to BEGIN the construction of a list dating to 1900, well before the term was popularized:

The Ring magazine was established in 1922 and has named a Fighter of the Year since 1928, which this list covers. The award, selected by the magazine editors, is based on a boxer's performance in the ring.

• 1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2)

I think that list is beneficial, and certainly helps and can be used as a tool, but I am unsure if fighter of the year consistently correlates to who is the best fighter in the world. Fighter of the year generally refers to who had the best wins in a given calendar year (but that relies as much on a fighter getting good fights), had some unique accomplishments, also probably a bit on popularity amongst other things. I have to imaging that a different fighter could actually be a better fighter in many years, without winning the award.

I doubt that Carl Frampton in 2016 was a better boxer relative to his weight class that a number of other fighters at the time: Ward, Lomachenko, Alvarez, etc. But he had a couple big wins that year so his resume was better, but based on his abilities I don't think he was. Along those lines look at SRR, he first won the award in 1942, the next year it was won by Fed Apostoli, granted this was WWII so lots going on, but I don't thin Apostoli was a consistently better fighter than SRR. Robinson wouldn't win it again until 1951. Now others like Charles (2) and Pep won the award in between, and I accept that they could have peaked ahead of Robinson at this time in ability. That being written, and maybe I am wrong for believing this, I imagine a great fighter like Robinson are roughly the same in ability throughout their prime- growing a bit until their actual peak, then declining somewhat. So while it could be that a couple fighters at any given time are close to being the best, I doubt that it would change every year for a long stretch.

As you wrote, you don't care much about the idea of P4P, so I appreciate you responding. With that in mind, do you buy into my above outline belief- that a fighter in their prime is roughly of the same ability throughout that given time (obviously with some exceptions: IE Tyson going off the rails)? If so, do you agree with my list posted earlier of who I felt was the actual best at given times?

[DeeMoney]

Was Andre Ward not very briefly after he beat Kovalev? Again, Inoue maybe at some point briefly as well. In fact, several of the names you listed will have been short stints. Since Mayweather nobody has had a true, long hold on it. I'd definitely say Golovkin (as you included) was at one point as well and it's a shame he never got going 5-7 years earlier. Nash out - His Majesty

I think Ward could have feasibly had a long run throughout the early '10s, but inactivity put a damper on it. I think by the time he reached Kov he was already on the downslide and may have no longer been the best.

[Willow The Wisp]

I think that list is beneficial, and certainly helps and can be used as a tool, but I am unsure if fighter of the year consistently correlates to who is the best fighter in the world. Fighter of the year generally refers to who had the best wins in a given calendar year (but that relies as much on a fighter getting good fights), had some unique accomplishments, also probably a bit on popularity amongst other things. I have to imaging that a different fighter could actually be a better fighter in many years, without winning the award.

I doubt that Carl Frampton in 2016 was a better boxer relative to his weight class that a number of other fighters at the time: Ward, Lomachenko, Alvarez, etc. But he had a couple big wins that year so his resume was better, but based on his abilities I don't think he was. Along those lines look at SRR, he first won the award in 1942, the next year it was won by Fed Apostoli, granted this was WWII so lots going on, but I don't thin Apostoli was a consistently better fighter than SRR. Robinson wouldn't win it again until 1951. Now others like Charles (2) and Pep won the award in between, and I accept that they could have peaked ahead of Robinson at this time in ability. That being written, and maybe I am wrong for believing this, I imagine a great fighter like Robinson are roughly the same in ability throughout their prime- growing a bit until their actual peak, then declining somewhat. So while it could be that a couple fighters at any given time are close to being the best, I doubt that it would change every year for a long stretch.

As you wrote, you don't care much about the idea of P4P, so I appreciate you responding. With that in mind, do you buy into my above outline belief- that a fighter in their prime is roughly of the same ability throughout that given time (obviously with some exceptions: IE Tyson going off the rails)? If so, do you agree with my list posted earlier of who I felt was the actual best at given times?

I agree with everything here. And ya man; that's a fun project you've put forth. A chronological from 1900, general press influncing the choice. Cool.

[Mr Mitts]

For for the sake of convo and context, since it became an actual ranking; 15 (or 16)

Mike Tyson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones
Oscar De La Hoya
Shane Mosley
Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquaio
Roman Gonzalez
Gennady Golovkin
Canelo Alvarez
Vasyl Lomachenko
Terrance Crawford
Oleksander Usyk

Can't remember if Inoue ever has.

Hopkins and Mosley. Jesus Christ, man!

[Mr Mitts]

Willie boy, you put a lot effort into a piece of garbage, son. In other words, this list isn't even worthy of a piece of trash. I hate to say that, because you are one of my favorite posters. But not this time.

Are you saying this is someone else's list? Whew! I just saw the reference. Thank God, lad!

Wow, Schmeling? Carmen Basilio, wowee! Jack Sharkey, double wowee! Double on Bobo Olsen, incredulous! on Ingomar, Christ! Benvenuiti was not. No not ever. Pretty fair fighter but not that level. Bowe, no, not ever! I never thought of Foreman as a P4P great either. James Toney? Ahem!! Forrest is dead but no P4P great, please! Then we come across Glen Johnson and Ricky Hatton! Oh, yeah, they're P4P greats, just ask anybody!This list has no standing and was obviously composed by someone with personal involvement. It is no P4P list at all, but might possibly serve as a fighter of the year list. Congratulations, you did not write it.


1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2) zz0.yznjq65uylqzz

[JeBron Lamez]

Hopkins and Mosley. Jesus Christ, man!

Iirc (& I sometimes don't!), both were rated as such after beating Thongdance McFishnets so there's another lowkey example of ODLH's actual standing in the sport.

[DeeMoney]

Willie boy, you put a lot effort into a piece of garbage, son. In other words, this list isn't even worthy of a piece of trash. I hate to say that, because you are one of my favorite posters. But not this time.

Are you saying this is someone else's list? Whew! I just saw the reference. Thank God, lad!

Wow, Schmeling? Carmen Basilio, wowee! Jack Sharkey, double wowee! Double on Bobo Olsen, incredulous! on Ingomar, Christ! Benvenuiti was not. No not ever. Pretty fair fighter but not that level. Bowe, no, not ever! I never thought of Foreman as a P4P great either. James Toney? Ahem!! Forrest is dead but no P4P great, please! Then we come across Glen Johnson and Ricky Hatton! Oh, yeah, they're P4P greats, just ask anybody!This list has no standing and was obviously composed by someone with personal involvement. It is no P4P list at all, but might possibly serve as a fighter of the year list. Congratulations, you did not write it.


1928: Gene Tunney
• 1929: Tommy Loughran
• 1930: Max Schmeling
• 1931: Tommy Loughran (2)
• 1932: Jack Sharkey
• 1933: no award given
• 1934: Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross
• 1935: Barney Ross (2)
• 1936: Joe Louis
• 1937: Henry Armstrong
• 1938: Joe Louis (2)
• 1939: Joe Louis (3)
• 1940: Billy Conn
• 1941: Joe Louis (4)
• 1942: Sugar Ray Robinson
• 1943: Fred Apostoli
• 1944: Beau Jack
• 1945: Willie Pep
• 1946: Tony Zale
• 1947: Gus Lesnevich
• 1948: Ike Williams
• 1949: Ezzard Charles
• 1950: Ezzard Charles (2)
• 1951: Sugar Ray Robinson (2)
• 1952: Rocky Marciano
• 1953: Bobo Olson
• 1954: Rocky Marciano (2)
• 1955: Rocky Marciano (3)
• 1956: Floyd Patterson
• 1957: Carmen Basilio
• 1958: Ingemar Johansson
• 1959: Ingemar Johansson (2)
• 1960: Floyd Patterson (2)
• 1961: Joe Brown
• 1962: **** Tiger
• 1963: Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)
• 1964: Emile Griffith
• 1965: **** Tiger (2)
• 1966: Muhammad Ali (2)
• 1967: Joe Frazier
• 1968: Nino Benvenuti
• 1969: José Nápoles
• 1970: Joe Frazier (2)
• 1971: Joe Frazier (3)
• 1972: Muhammad Ali (3) and Carlos Monzón
• 1973: George Foreman
• 1974: Muhammad Ali (4)
• 1975: Muhammad Ali (5)
• 1976: George Foreman (2)
• 1977: Carlos Zarate
• 1978: Muhammad Ali (6)
• 1979: Sugar Ray Leonard
• 1980: Thomas Hearns
• 1981: Sugar Ray Leonard (2) and Salvador Sánchez
• 1982: Larry Holmes
• 1983: Marvin Hagler
• 1984: Thomas Hearns (2)
• 1985: Marvin Hagler (2) and Donald Curry
• 1986: Mike Tyson
• 1987: Evander Holyfield
• 1988: Mike Tyson (2)
• 1989: Pernell Whitaker
• 1990: Julio César Chávez
• 1991: James Toney
• 1992: Rid**** Bowe
• 1993: Michael Carbajal
• 1994: Roy Jones Jr.
• 1995: Oscar De La Hoya
• 1996: Evander Holyfield (2)
• 1997: Evander Holyfield (3)
• 1998: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
• 1999: Paulie Ayala
• 2000: Félix Trinidad
• 2001: Bernard Hopkins
• 2002: Vernon Forrest
• 2003: James Toney (2)
• 2004: Glen Johnson
• 2005: Ricky Hatton
• 2006: Manny Pacquiao
• 2007: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (2)
• 2008: Manny Pacquiao (2)
• 2009: Manny Pacquiao (3)
• 2010: Sergio Martínez
• 2011: Andre Ward
• 2012: Juan Manuel Márquez
• 2013: Adonis Stevenson
• 2014: Sergey Kovalev
• 2015: Tyson Fury
• 2016: Carl Frampton
• 2017: Vasiliy Lomachenko
• 2018: Oleksandr Usyk
• 2019: Canelo Álvarez
• 2020: Tyson Fury (2) and Teófimo López
• 2021: Canelo Álvarez (2)
• 2022: Dmitry Bivol
• 2023: Naoya Inoue
• 2024: Oleksandr Usyk (2) zz0.yznjq65uylqzz

I believe his list is those who won fighter of the year award.

[billeau2]

You mean post date it?

P4P is really just a promotional idea started by SRR's promoter as a means to sell him without trying to make him a HW. So guys like Nonpariel Dempsey could apply but the term hadn't entered boxing yet. NP would certainly be the man in any other verbiage. "Best at boxing if not for size" sort of deal in his day.


Under that definition there's always one. There has to be.

If we got by the reality of p4p and how often it actually worked there's actually just a few

SRR
SRL
RJJ
Mayweather

Done. These are the men main****** average joes know beyond the HW champ of the eras. Anyone else it could apply to got beat or exist before the term.

I always felt like the whole P4P thing was a way for people to acknowledge the other weight classes. Originally the "champ" was the heavyweight champ of the world. The irony was that the most skilled fighters were seldom heavyweights.