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Originally posted by Marchegiano
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Damn, but Z's a tough old dog and he will recover.
Yeah man, I'm pretty tired of the whole bad source routine. It didn't used to be a major factor in our discussions for most the time I've been on BS. Maybe the last 5 - 6 years. Root of my attack on Nat, been having Nat thrown in my face while I get told I am not qualified. For about five years now.
There's a few users who immediately jump to your source is wrong but mine can do no wrong style stances. Z's not alone in it, and I confess I gave up on fighting it and joined in with my several threads that basically amount to Nat Fleischer wasn't even a historian. Even if you didn't get it, that's really what these recent color line threads are about. Bringing up rasslin', maybe going too hard on "lineal" when I really mean lineal as told by Nat, etc.
But, if this is the shot across the bow against this behavior, all for it. I'll stop my bull**** source attacking too. I don't tell my readers who was great and who wasn't why TF would I tell youse who is and isn't a solid source like as if that is not an opinion?
So, yeah Z here's a case in point but not exactly the only one. Maybe don't have ***** ass arguments over whose daddy can whoop who on a playground and just cite the source. Because I promise you this, does not matter who said what or who agrees with what, readers are going to read and form their own opinions and by being opinion tyrants all you do is make new comers nervous to speak. Try to dictate the ****ing means in which opinions are formed. What ****s.
I don't really have a problem with Ring, it is the new Ring thumping fanboys who pretend like the only source as valued as Ring is the books they happened to buy. Black Belt was ****, but even they had some good articles sometimes. I was speaking to a guy a while back about Bart Vale and how I had my view on him backwards. Vale was using Black Belt to promote his wrestling not using wrestling to try to weasel into a real fighting sport's rankings. The fact that he did speaks to his bravery and performance ability. He was a great pro wrestler actually.
We all know about the Dux stuff and Dante and what not, or at least I hope everyone does. But there was also MMA coverage and things like that.
Just saying not even BB was only ninja stars. but like Ring people really did take it as a source, which it has never really been. Vale was a beast. Shoot wrestling in Japan was excellent quality material and he made his bones in the ring over there.I agree with this post with no caveats. Even in academic circles it applies. I once argued with the president of my Master's degree school. He, like myself was a comparative philosopher and my mentor undergrad was his best friend. We all had dinner together. Like so many Western bias trained philosophers he wanted to assert that Western thinking was a pedigree, I told him that schools of all the Western traditions, and more vigorous schools of thought existed in India. As someone who loves both traditions, I was not denigrating the Greeks, Kant, etc, but to give them some status... I remain skeptical.
I look at our debate akin to how you describe Nat and Ring. Boxing materials were around to plagorize... Nobody really looks at intellectual property carefully outside of academics, school teachers and researchers. Nat could go to any of many great materials and just steal the work, who (aside from you?) would call him out on it?
My analogy continues to Socrates. The Golden Age of thinking showed that Socrates was familiar with Indian concepts of Rebirth, Karma etc. Plato openly credited the Greek thinking with Egyptian Priests who came before... There was borrowing... Nothing was Ad Naseum!
Marchegiano
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