What Is Your Opinion About Jake Lamotta? Was He An ATG?

[max baer]

Casuals often confuse pressure with punchers. Was Marciano a big puncher? Not really, but he hit hard as h e l l and kept his attack coming. Some punchers apply pressure extremely well and vice versa. Liston and Louis were punchers who never had to do things many people think all fighters have to do... Louis never did not catch a man because his feet were slow, anymore than Liston never didn't finish an opponent because he did not cut the ring down.

Lamotta and Marciano perfected a style of pressuring the opponent eventually causing them to break down and when they did, both men hit hard enough to take advantage of it.

One thing I wanted to add. Growing up in the eighties one thing myself and my brother and all our friends always talked about in boxing movies was how realistic the fight scenes were. My brother always felt rocky movies were too stu pid and an insult to the viewer with the fight scenes. Me being younger and not as cultured I just loved the rocky movies. He thought that raging bull had much better fight scenes and I try to explain that it is entertainment and not to be taken too seriously.
Do you guys think the fight scenes in raging bull are very good?
I have not seen the whole of cinderella man but I thought crowe's fight scenes were good in that film.
I think rocky 6 had very good fight scenes and I read that stallone was ambitious this time to make the scenes realistic.
I couldn't stop laughing when I first saw raging bull around 2001 as the dialogue between pesci and dinero is so funny.
Willow has had the great gift of knowing the real jake lamotta and he says that jake had an amazing life-story and he was great company. He lived well into his nineties too!

[max baer]

I have always heard as well, that LaMotta wasn't a big puncher.

But I don't understand the complaint about Raging Bull. I didn't think the film portrayed LaMotta as such. I thought the film's emphasis was on LaMotta taking hard punches not delivering them.

I agree willie. The scene where he takes a real beating and keeps saying "you never knocked me out, you never knocked me out." He was crazy in a likeable way.

[max baer]

I agree willie. The scene where he takes a real beating and keeps saying "you never knocked me out, you never knocked me out." He was crazy in a likeable way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx-kB1KKLJ0 you never got me down was the right words i just found it!

[Willie Pep 229]

I agree willie. The scene where he takes a real beating and keeps saying "you never knocked me out, you never knocked me out." He was crazy in a likeable way.

I think . . . in their second fight, LaMotta earned a UD decision over SRR with an eight round KD added in.

LaMotta then had a second KD over SRR in their third fight as well, but Robinson won that one on a controversial decision.

In Raging Bull . . . when LaMotta is being held up by his brother after the beating, (St. Valentine Day Massacre) he is reminding Robinson that he is still two up on him in KDs.

As funny as it might sound, that probably did bother SRR to some extent. Surely the great Sugar Ray didn't like being KD twice by the same guy.

I don't know enough about SRR but I wonder if those two KDs were his first. Fight II was definitely his first loss.

EDIT

To repeat myself I can't see how a fighter can go 63 rounds with SRR before Robinson can finally truly beat that man, and then question if this guy is a ATG.

As Ali always said about Joe Frazier; Jake LaMotta made SRR great.

P.S. The last fight, "the massacre" was a close fight up until the 12th round, when SRR took over, with the massacre occurring in the next round.

But up until the 12th round, even "the massacre" was enroute to becoming just another close UD decision for SRR. It took SRR 63 rounds to finally defeat LaMotta.

[max baer]

I think . . . in their second fight, LaMotta earned a UD decision over SRR with an eight round KD added in.

LaMotta then had a second KD over SRR in their third fight as well, but Robinson won that one on a controversial decision.

In Raging Bull . . . when LaMotta is being held up by his brother after the beating, (St. Valentine Day Massacre) he is reminding Robinson that he is still two up on him in KDs.

As funny as it might sound, that probably did bother SRR to some extent. Surely the great Sugar Ray didn't like being KD twice by the same guy.

I don't know enough about SRR but I wonder if those two KDs were his first. Fight II was definitely his first loss.

EDIT

To repeat myself I can't see how a fighter can go 63 rounds with SRR before Robinson can finally truly beat that man, and then question if this guy is a ATG.

As Ali always said about Joe Frazier; Jake LaMotta made SRR great.

I agree willie. I think it is due to the fact we are on this forum discussing the ultimates and therefore our estimations are large. If we look at all the boxing clubs in russia and across america and britain, australia etc and then judge a guy like LaMotta then of course he is ATG but our expectations are so high.
I think men like Jab who still boxes, have an appreciation that maybe armchair supporters don't take into account. of all the men that have boxed at middle weight or thereabouts to be in peoples top 50 of all time makes someone a true legend.

[billeau2]

One thing I wanted to add. Growing up in the eighties one thing myself and my brother and all our friends always talked about in boxing movies was how realistic the fight scenes were. My brother always felt rocky movies were too stu pid and an insult to the viewer with the fight scenes. Me being younger and not as cultured I just loved the rocky movies. He thought that raging bull had much better fight scenes and I try to explain that it is entertainment and not to be taken too seriously.
Do you guys think the fight scenes in raging bull are very good?
I have not seen the whole of cinderella man but I thought crowe's fight scenes were good in that film.
I think rocky 6 had very good fight scenes and I read that stallone was ambitious this time to make the scenes realistic.
I couldn't stop laughing when I first saw raging bull around 2001 as the dialogue between pesci and dinero is so funny.
Willow has had the great gift of knowing the real jake lamotta and he says that jake had an amazing life-story and he was great company. He lived well into his nineties too!

Any scene suggesting that punches can just be taken is unrealistic. However boxing is pretty easy to choreograph compared to other fight scenes. In any choreography you have to make explicit that which is usually hidden.

[solidman]

Raging bull was one of the best boxing films for sure. However my favour is the Dempsey film made in 1983.

[Willie Pep 229]

One thing I wanted to add. Growing up in the eighties one thing myself and my brother and all our friends always talked about in boxing movies was how realistic the fight scenes were. My brother always felt rocky movies were too stu pid and an insult to the viewer with the fight scenes. Me being younger and not as cultured I just loved the rocky movies. He thought that raging bull had much better fight scenes and I try to explain that it is entertainment and not to be taken too seriously.
Do you guys think the fight scenes in raging bull are very good?
I have not seen the whole of cinderella man but I thought crowe's fight scenes were good in that film.
I think rocky 6 had very good fight scenes and I read that stallone was ambitious this time to make the scenes realistic.
I couldn't stop laughing when I first saw raging bull around 2001 as the dialogue between pesci and dinero is so funny.
Willow has had the great gift of knowing the real jake lamotta and he says that jake had an amazing life-story and he was great company. He lived well into his nineties too!

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on Bill and your conversation.

The Irish in Us. A 1935 Jimmy Gagney film.

Gagney used Harvey Parry a stunt-man's stuntman, and an AAU boxing champion as his go to guy for the fight scenes.

Parry both choreographed the fight scenes and also served as the opponent for the 'big fight' climax.

Parry spent a couple of months with Gagney and taught him how to box. For the final fight scenes they actually sparred making for a very realistic looking fight.


P.S. Harvey Parry tells a great story about Tom Mix, matinee cowboy star.

Mix was supposed to hit Parry sending him over a barroom table. Mix use to wear these white gloves and when the scene came Tom Mix just nailed stuntman Parry with a real punch.

Parry was angry but couldn't complain about the star, so he waited. When it came time for him to throw a punch, he nailed Mix sending him to the floor.

Parry expected to hear, "You're fired!" But Mix just picked himself up and went back to work.

After that the two would take turns sucker punching eachother. They made a lot of movies together.

But if you ever see an old Tom Mix movie and the punch looks real, it probably is, and it's probably Parry getting nailed.

[max baer]

Raging bull was one of the best boxing films for sure. However my favour is the Dempsey film made in 1983.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8IwxVHWf4

I think this is the film you mean mate!

[max baer]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on Bill and your conversation.

The Irish in Us. A 1935 Jimmy Gagney film.

Gagney used Harvey Parry a stunt-man's stuntman, and an AAU boxing champion as his go to guy for the fight scenes.

Parry both choreographed the fight scenes and also served as the opponent for the 'big fight' climax.

Parry spent a couple of months with Gagney and taught him how to box. For the final fight scenes they actually sparred making for a very realistic looking fight.


P.S. Harvey Parry tells a great story about Tom Mix, matinee cowboy star.

Mix was supposed to hit Parry sending him over a barroom table. Mix use to wear these white gloves and when the scene came Tom Mix just nailed stuntman Parry with a real punch.

Parry was angry but couldn't complain about the star, so he waited. When it came time for him to throw a punch, he nailed Mix sending him to the floor.

Parry expected to hear, "You're fired!" But Mix just picked himself up and went back to work.

After that the two would take turns sucker punching eachother. They made a lot of movies together.

But if you ever see an old Tom Mix movie and the punch looks real, it probably is, and it's probably Parry getting nailed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_UiV9QM_Ew i am not sure if i can find the entire film but will try and find it. thanks willie.