Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[Willie Pep 229]

Again, Usyk said, in multiple interviews, that it was Fury's WBC belt he was interested in, not Fury himself, because he needed that belt to achieve his dream of becoming the undisputed HW champion. He also said that becoming lineal champion means nothing to him. Who are you to say different?

The guy who buys the ticket.

I say he was just kissing WBC butt because he knew where his interests lay.

Which I agree he should do. Work everyone's ego. The Sulaiman family is Trump like in its need for praise so he gave it to them. Smart man.

[kafkod]

The guy who buys the ticket.

I say he was just kissing WBC butt because he knew where his interests lay.

Which I agree he should do. Work everyone's ego. The Sulaiman family is Trump like in its need for praise so he gave it to them. Smart man.

Why would he need to kiss the WBC's butt if wasn't interested in fighting for their belt?

If Fury had relinquished the WBC belt and Usyk had won it in a vacant title fight, Usyk would still be the star of the division and Fury would be totally discredited and begging AJ to fight him for one last payday before retiring and reigning as the undefeated imaginary lineal title holder for the rest of his days.

[Willie Pep 229]

Why would he need to kiss the WBC's butt if wasn't interested in fighting for their belt?

If Fury had relinquished the WBC belt and Usyk had won it in a vacant title fight, Usyk would still be the star of the division and Fury would be totally discredited and begging AJ to fight him for one last payday before retiring and reigning as the undefeated imaginary lineal title holder for the rest of his days.

The star of the division but still incomplete. Just as Iron Mike said he felt before Spinks.

[JAB5239]

Cart before the horse again. If Usyk hadn't won the belts, nobody would have been calling him the heavyweight champion in the first place!

The man has said, out of his own mouth, that being lineal champion means nothing to him. Who are you to say any different?

Of course they would have. Because Tyson was the beat heavyweight at the time, and the man who beat the man to become lineal champion.

[kafkod]

The star of the division but still incomplete. Just as Iron Mike said he felt before Spinks.

The situation was completely different back then. Lineages were easier to trace and there was an actual lineal title belt, awarded by Ring Magazine via the man-who-beat-the-man method, which Spinks held when he fought Tyson.

If Spinks had handed in his licence and retired after beating Holmes, then come back 2 years later, 80lb overweight, claiming to still be the lineal champion, do you really think anybody would have taken his claim seriously? Boxing reporters were serious journalists back then, not the grovelling toadies we have nowadays. Spinks would have been ripped to shreds and laughed out of the sport if he'd tried to pull a con trick like that in the 1980s.

[kafkod]

Of course they would have. Because Tyson was the beat heavyweight at the time, and the man who beat the man to become lineal champion.

Usyk said that after he beat Fury.

[Willie Pep 229]

The situation was completely different back then. Lineages were easier to trace and there was an actual lineal title belt, awarded by Ring Magazine via the man-who-beat-the-man method, which Spinks held when he fought Tyson.

If Spinks had handed in his licence and retired after beating Holmes, then come back 2 years later, 80lb overweight, claiming to still be the lineal champion, do you really think anybody would have taken his claim seriously? Boxing reporters were serious journalists back then, not the grovelling toadies we have nowadays. Spinks would have been ripped to shreds and laughed out of the sport if he'd tried to pull a con trick like that in the 1980s.

OK let's go with your logic. Fury walked away from the lineal title.

So it was up for grabs. In this vein Fury-Wilder doesn't define the lineal title because it was not recognized as the best against the best. Joahua was out there holding multiple belts. (True)

So when is the "lineal" title next contested?

Not until Fury-Usyk. Usyk nudged Joshua out of position.

So the lineal title still runs like this:

Lewis (Retired)
W. Klitschko
Fury (Retired)
Usyk

Nothing about the lineal title changes even if you strip Fury of the title via retirement.

Are you saying that boxing history will call Anthony Joahua the HW Champion of the World?

[EDIT] Under this logic you can argue that Fury never regained the lineal title after retirement.

He should have fought AJ when he came back. That would have decided the issue we'll.

[Marchegiano]

I mean popular demand dictates doesn't it? You can basically cite anything in lineal history, there's an example for any BS you want to say is a rule or tradition, and for a time some are traditional. Until someone comes out with a new spiel and promo campaign and changes the mainstream modern narrative.

For a while Ring had the strongest hold on lineal narrative. Even during anti-ring backlash eras, it's still Ring narrative being argued. Tyson made his own, people bought in even if some didn't.

That isn't to say all stances have the same number of precedence to reference but it really doesn't change the popular opinion element does it?


Lineal is a popularity contest.

[kafkod]

OK let's go with your logic. Fury walked away from the lineal title.

So it was up for grabs. In this vein Fury-Wilder doesn't define the lineal title because it was not recognized as the best against the best. Joahua was out there holding multiple belts. (True)

So when is the "lineal" title next contested?

Not until Fury-Usyk. Usyk nudged Joshua out of position.

So the lineal title still runs like this:

Lewis (Retired)
W. Klitschko
Fury (Retired)
Usyk

Nothing about the lineal title changes even if you strip Fury of the title via retirement.

Are you saying that boxing history will call Anthony Joahua the HW Champion of the World?

[EDIT] Under this logic you can argue that Fury never regained the lineal title after retirement.

He should have fought AJ when he came back. That would have decided the issue we'll.

A couple of things to note here: The first 2 Fury vs Wilder fights were billed and sold as WBC and lineal world title unification fights, with Fury being introduced as the reigning and defending lineal world champion.

Even if you ignore this and say that Fury's lineal title reign started with him defeating Wilder in a fight between number 1 and 2 in the division, what justification was there for ranking Wilder and Fury as 1 and 2 in the division? Between the 2 of them, they had beaten just one of the then current Ring top 10 contenders.

So why were they 1 and 2 in the division? Answer: Because Queensberry Promotions, Top Rank and PBC said so.

[kafkod]

I mean popular demand dictates doesn't it? You can basically cite anything in lineal history, there's an example for any BS you want to say is a rule or tradition, and for a time some are traditional. Until someone comes out with a new spiel and promo campaign and changes the mainstream modern narrative.

For a while Ring had the strongest hold on lineal narrative. Even during anti-ring backlash eras, it's still Ring narrative being argued. Tyson made his own, people bought in even if some didn't.

That isn't to say all stances have the same number of precedence to reference but it really doesn't change the popular opinion element does it?


Lineal is a popularity contest.

That's basically all it amounts to nowadays. And the reason I don't approve of the concept is that, in my experience as a boxing fan, lineal status is only invoked when belt holders are looking for an excuse to not fight other belt holders, or promoters are trying to sell crappy fights like Fury vs Schwarz as more than they actually are.