Boxing Champions Great Outside The Ring

[Anomalocaris]

Presentism — the act of interpreting or judging the past based on modern values, beliefs, or perspectives.

This historical malady leads to misunderstandings of historical contexts, as it fails to account for the social, cultural, and moral frameworks that shaped people's actions at the time.

While it's natural to analyze history through today's lens, real historians try to understand the past on its own terms, recognizing that people operated within different moral and societal norms.

Presentism really p*sses me off.

In woke-world here (England) the total ignorance and self-loathing of our history is endless.

Yes by modern standards the British Empire was relatively brutal - but FOR THE TIME it was the most enlightened the world had ever seen (compare it with the savagery of the Belgian Congo for example).

[Willie Pep 229]

Presentism really p*sses me off.

In woke-world here (England) the endless ignorance and self-loathing of our history is endless.

Yes by modern standards the British Empire was relatively brutal - but FOR THE TIME it was the most enlightened the world had ever seen (compare it with the savagery of the Belgian Congo for example).

I don't want to excuse colonialism for any nation, including the USA . . . BUT . . .

One thing I will on the British behalf, when it came to relinquish the empire they did in far more humane manner than the other European colonies.

The French and Belgians (and others) were brutal in both their colonialism and during their resistance to its collapse.

While there was some violence, Britian gave up its empire without the level of brutality that was displayed by others.

[Bronson66]

That's a deflection. You're making broad assumptions and summing up a man's entire existence on said assumptions. Jack Johnson was a pimp and a r@pist, yet he's worshipped and adored by fans across the sport as some victim of society and deserves a pass for being a monster. Joe Louis was a drug addict, Ray Robinson brutally abused his wife, Liston was a leg-breaker for the mob, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Hopkins, Haney have all said racist things...must we caveat every discussion about them by pointing out how flawed they were/are? Or can we agree that some of them did enough good in their lifetime to balance out the scales?

Johnson was not a pimp,he patronised **********s and gave them money,but there is absolutely no proof he ever benefited financially from them quite the reverse,they benefited financially from him . and there is zero evidence he ever ****d a woman.

Liston ****d a woman, so did Berbick and Tyson.Monzon was a pimp in his early days.

[Bronson66]

LOL, you seem particularly triggered here. I merely asked how so because I haven't done a deep dive on Corbett's entire life. I also take into account social norms of any given era, I don't hold a man or woman of over 100 years ago to the social equity standards that apply to everything today. Especially since the equity standards are sharply skewed in one direction. Too many people sum up a person's entire life and judge them according to a quote lacking context or someone behaving in such a way that was socially acceptable and perhaps expected from a bygone era. The color lines in the early 1900s were much stronger than even a few decades later. How much good did they do in their lifetime and does all of that get erased for a slur? Do you think your boy Marciano who grew up in Brockton MA was woke before his time and didn't treat blacks or other ********** differently because it was socially acceptable in the 40s and 50s, or use a slur here and there? Was he marching for equal and civil rights in the 60s? I honestly don't know, but I'd welcome any supporting evidence.

Marciano had his faults, he was convicted of mugging a civilian in the UK during the War and put in the stockade whilst his unit went to France.He was a pathological miser,and a loan shark in his retirement,but everything I have ever read about him ,[4 books]points to a man who had warm friendships with black fighters.
Louis kissed his coffin.Walcott was friendly with him, as was the crippled Charles,and Moore,so that's one charge that I don't think can be held against him.
How many black fighters marched in civil rights demos?

Liston was queried about his absence on them and replied,"I ain't got no dog proof ass."

Joe Louis was a serial adulterer and an absentee Father,but he did a hell of a lot for American Blacks,using his influence to get Jackie Robinson into Officers Training School and,when Robinson finally got his break to join the Brooklyn Dodgers he made a speech saying
"he made it easy for me,and all the others to play baseball."
As Shulberg said, "that's why Louis is in Arlington and Emmett Smith Barry Bonds and Tiger Woods won't be." your point on ,different eras having different attitudes to race is well taken.

[GhostofDempsey]

Marciano had his faults, he was convicted of mugging a civilian in the UK during the War and put in the stockade whilst his unit went to France.He was a pathological miser,and a loan shark in his retirement,but everything I have ever read about him ,[4 books]points to a man who had warm friendships with black fighters.
Louis kissed his coffin.Walcott was friendly with him, as was the crippled Charles,and Moore,so that's one charge that I don't think can be held against him.
How many black fighters marched in civil rights demos?

Liston was queried about his absence on them and replied,"I ain't got no dog proof ass."

Joe Louis was a serial adulterer and an absentee Father,but he did a hell of a lot for American Blacks,using his influence to get Jackie Robinson into Officers Training School and,when Robinson finally got his break to join the Brooklyn Dodgers he made a speech saying
"he made it easy for me,and all the others to play baseball."
As Shulberg said, "that's why Louis is in Arlington and Emmett Smith Barry Bonds and Tiger Woods won't be." your point on ,different eras having different attitudes to race is well taken.

You're welcome to give Marciano and other fighters the benefit of the doubt. None of us will truly know what was in their heart. I'm not attacking him, just pointing out once again how easy it is to sum up a man's life by cherry-picking their flaws and making broad assumptions. Thanks for proving my point.

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson was not a pimp,he patronised **********s and gave them money,but there is absolutely no proof he ever benefited financially from them quite the reverse,they benefited financially from him . and there is zero evidence he ever ****d a woman.

Liston ****d a woman, so did Berbick and Tyson.Monzon was a pimp in his early days.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this Ivich.

[Bronson66]

You're welcome to give Marciano and other fighters the benefit of the doubt. None of us will truly know what was in their heart. I'm not attacking him, just pointing out once again how easy it is to sum up a man's life by cherry-picking their flaws and making broad assumptions. Thanks for proving my point.

I wasnt trying to disprove it,just pointing out Rocky was very friendly with several of his black opponents ,and in the absence of the slightest evidence to the contrary,and the evidence that he was companionable with them.Points to there being no case to answer for Rocky.
The onus is always on the finger pointer not the target.

On that note, can we have your proof that Jack Johnson was a pimp and a rapist please?

[Bronson66]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this Ivich.

I'm happy to read any evidence you post that Johnson ,pimped and ****d women. Always ready to learn!

[QueensburyRules]

I wasnt trying to disprove it,just pointing out Rocky was very friendly with several of his black opponents ,and in the absence of the slightest evidence to the contrary,and the evidence that he was companionable with them.Points to there being no case to answer for Rocky.
The onus is always on the finger pointer not the target.

On that note, can we have your proof that Jack Johnson was a pimp and a rapist please?

- - So was U JJ's pimp?

We know he married **********s, one of whom he financed a brothel for her to run, the whole onus of his of conviction of violating the Mann Act which is still a legal law used in America.

[Bronson66]

- - So was U JJ's pimp?

We know he married **********s, one of whom he financed a brothel for her to run, the whole onus of his of conviction of violating the Mann Act which is still a legal law used in America.

No he didn't finance any brothel and if you claim otherwise I'm,asking you to prove it.
The Mann act was brought into law to combat White Slavery ie forced prostitution.
Johnson was convicted of transporting a woman who was not his wife across state border lines for immoral purposes.
Therefore any male who traveled from one state to another and had sex with a woman he was not married to was liable to prosecution under the Mann Act.

"The Mann Act made it a crime to transport women across state lines "for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose." While designed to combat forced prostitution, the law was so broadly worded that courts held it to criminalize many forms of consensual sexual activity, and it was soon being used as a tool for political persecution of Jack Johnson and others, as well as a tool for blackmail.

The Mann Act was born during the "white slavery" hysteria of the early 20th century."


You really shouldn't comment on these adult matters, because doing so just makes you appear almost as big a fool as your actually are.which believe me is some feat!lol