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Top 5 Middleweights.....Hopkins?

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  • Top 5 Middleweights.....Hopkins?

    I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?
    them_apples them_apples likes this.

  • #2
    Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
    I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?
    you know you love the slapper jab!!!???
    what about the slapper???
    Never lost?
    What say you.....by the way he never lost?
    Super Joe.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by max baer View Post

      you know you love the slapper jab!!!???
      what about the slapper???
      Never lost?
      What say you.....by the way he never lost?
      Super Joe.
      He never fought at middleweight. If he had that resume at middleweight he'd never be in any conversation as a top 10 all time great let alone top 5.
      Mr Mitts Mr Mitts likes this.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

        He never fought at middleweight. If he had that resume at middleweight he'd never be in any conversation as a top 10 all time great let alone top 5.
        oh yeah he was super middle weight. I was supposing that many boxers fluctuate around middle and super middle and he fought a few middle weights.
        I think jab we can both totally agree that super joe was in top 5 super middleweights ever. perhaps number one.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by max baer View Post

          oh yeah he was super middle weight. I was supposing that many boxers fluctuate around middle and super middle and he fought a few middle weights.
          I think jab we can both totally agree that super joe was in top 5 super middleweights ever. perhaps number one.
          I'd concede to that.
          nathan sturley max baer likes this.

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          • #6
            I would say no.

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            • #7
              My 2 cents (and worth every penny!!!!!!):

              All-Time Middleweights - Modern Era

              1. Sam Langford
              2. Harry Greb
              3. Sugar Ray Robinson
              4. Carlos Monzon
              5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
              6. Stanley Ketchel
              7. Bob Fitzsimmons
              8. Marcel Cerdan
              9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
              10. Roy Jones Jr.
              11.Mickey Walker
              12.Mike Gibbons
              13.Bernard Hopkins
              14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
              15 Gennadiy Golovkin
              16.Jake LaMotta
              17.Freddie Steel
              18.Thomas Hearns
              19.Tiger Flowers
              20.Tony Zale
              21.Charley Burley
              22.Tommy Ryan
              23.Marcel Thil
              24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
              25.Georges Carpentier
              26.Rocky Graziano
              27.Jeff Smith
              28.**** Tiger
              29.Roberto Duran
              30.Billy Papke
              32.Gene Fullmer
              33.Holman Williams
              34.Mike O’Dowd
              35.Les Darcy
              36.Eddie McGootry
              37.Emile Griffith
              38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
              39.Eddie Booker
              40.Frank Klaus
              41.Al Hostak
              42.Buck Crouse
              43.Georgie Abrams
              44.Lou Brouillard
              45.Jimmy Clabby
              46.Leo Houck
              47.Vince Dundee
              48.Rodrigo Valdez
              49.Mike McCallum
              50.Teddy Yarosz
              51.Nino Benvenuti
              52.Joey Giardello
              53.James Toney
              54.Ken Overlin
              55.Al McCoy
              56.Carmen Basilio
              57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
              58.Sergio Martinez
              59.Laszlo Papp
              60.Mike O'Dowd
              61.Julian Jackson
              62.George Chip
              63.Lloyd Marshall
              64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
              65.Ceferino Garcia
              66.Fred Apostoli
              67.Gustav Scholz
              68.Kelly Pavlik
              69.Michael Nunn
              70.Randy Turpin
              71.Charles Humez
              72.Chris Eubank
              73.Sumbu Kalambay
              74.Nigel Benn
              75.Johnny Wilson
              76.Alan Minter
              77.Ace Hudkins
              78.Gerald McClellan
              79.Paul Pender
              80.Arthur Abraham
              81.Robert Villemain
              82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
              83.Jermall Charlo
              84.Vito Antuofermo
              85.Rene DeVos
              86.Jack Chase
              87.Hugo Corro
              88.Terry Downs
              89.Holly Mims
              90.Miguel Cotto
              91.Dave Sands
              92.Hugo Kelly
              93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
              94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
              95.Dave Shade
              95.George Benton
              97.Clarence Alabama Kid
              98."Allentown" Joe Gans
              99.Young Ahearn
              100.Mike Donovan
              101.Jermain Taylor
              102.Ben "Belter" Brown
              103.Steve Collins
              104.Denny "Bulldog" Harrington
              105.Leo Lomski
              106.John "The Beast" Mugabi
              107.Frank Moody
              108.William "Gorilla" Jones
              109.Kenny Watkins
              110.George Rooke
              111.Evelio "Kid" Turnero
              112.Frank Battaglia
              113.Johnny Howard
              114.John David Jackson
              115.Frankie Schoell
              116.Elsworth "Spider" Webb
              117.Joey Archer
              118.Steve Belloise
              119.Antonio Fernandez
              120.Billy Soose
              121.Mustafa Hamsho
              122.Eduardo Lausse
              123.Ignasio Ara
              124.Ruben "Hurricane" Carter
              125.Jean Claude Bouttier
              126.Edward McGlinchey
              127.Percey "Pal" Reed
              128.Rory Calhoun
              129.Ben Jeby
              130.Cyrille Delannoit
              131.Ralph "Tiger" Jones
              132.Rocky Castellani
              133.Bobby Boyd
              134.Jackie Clark
              135.Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts
              136.Herol "Bomber" Graham
              137.Jock Malone
              138.Laurent Dauthuille
              139.Bert Lytell
              140.Charley Joseph
              141.Floentino Fernandez
              142.Tiberio Mitri
              143.Juan Domingo Roldan
              144.Yama Bahama
              145.Willie "The Worm" Monroe
              146.Tony Mundine Sr.
              147.Fred Henneberry
              148.Willis "Shorty" Hogue
              149.Solly Krieger
              150.Reggie Johnson
              151.Jack Hood
              152.Gratien Tonna
              153.Babe Risko
              154.Felix Sturm
              155.Kell Brook
              156.Paul Pirrone
              157.William Joppy
              158.**** Turpin
              159.Tony Sibson
              160.Luis Folledo
              161."Sugar" Ray Seales
              162.Dwight Davidson
              163.Tom Bogs
              164.Carmen Barth
              165.Sam Soliman
              166.Keith Holmes
              167.Tony Licata
              168.Daniel Jacobs
              169.Ossie Stewart
              170.Salvatore Affinito
              171.Lamar Parks
              172.Artie Townie
              173.Gene "Silent" Hairston
              174.Daniel Geale
              175.Miguel de Oliveira
              176.Curtis Parker
              177.Young Terry
              178."Dangerous" Don Lee
              179.Meyer Grace
              180.Joe "Bolo" Blackwood
              181.Al Trainor
              182.Rosy Baker
              183.Marco Antonio Rubio
              184.Howard Eastman
              185.Mel "Killer" Brown
              186.Gomeo Brennan
              187.Walter Cartier
              188.Eugene "Cyclone" Hart
              189.Wilford Scypion
              190.Joe Carter
              191.Nasim Max Cohen
              192.Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
              193.Atilio Sabatino
              191.William "Caveman" Lee
              192.Jackie Burke
              193.Hacine Cherifi
              194.Harry Balsamo
              195.Jorge Castro
              196.David Lemieux
              197.Grzegorz Proksa
              198.Johnny Rossi
              199.Martin Murray
              200.Kid Leonard​
              Last edited by Willow The Wisp; 10-29-2024, 02:59 PM.

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              • #8
                I would rank him higher than Ketchel who I think was overrated. To a certain degree I think Hopkins reign at 160 was also somewhat overrated. He hid out at 160 padding his record against a long string of no-hopers, journeymen and long forgotten opponents instead of moving up to 168 sooner to face a prime Jones and Toney. His best wins at 160 were two blown up welters (Trinidad and Oscar). I would place LaMotta, Walker, Burley, Flowers, Langford, Fullmer, Tiger, and a few others ahead of Hopkins.

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                • #9
                  What garbage is this? Great how? For holding onto a phony title for years and defending against mandatory nonentities in some of the most boring fights ever? Hopkins is behind even Sugar Ray Leonard in WBW of middleweights. Leonard beats Hopkins pure and simple. Hearns would beat him too. Any list that places him above Langford and Greb is a from a tale told by an idiot. Willow has him placed about correctly in 13th place.

                  He only has a shot in the longevity category. A bore to watch, a boor to listen to, a bore to talk about.
                  Last edited by Mr Mitts; 10-29-2024, 04:20 PM.
                  them_apples them_apples tokon tokon like this.

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                  • #10
                    First of all, "Rolling stones" fighters like Archie Moorer, Hopkins, are always at a disadvantage when trying to place them in a division. It just makes it tough to compare them. GhostofDempsey made a great point along similar lines: Hopkins best wins were outside Middle Weight. Ghost refers specifically to Trinidad and De la Hoya, but the same logic applies to bigger fighters Hopkins beat, Pascal, Winky, Tarver...Of course Hagler and Monzon also had some resume issues as well with respect to quality of opponents, weight of opponents (Hagler)*, and to complicate matters, many (yours included) feel that Hopkins beat Taylor, essentially putting him in a better light when compared to the top of the Middle Weight pile.

                    *Leanard came up to fight Hagler, ditto for Tommy Hearns. Hopkins, like Monzon and Hagler was dominant against good solid opposition... fighters like Pavlick (for example). He shows well in the ring, BUT if we really scrutinize his early opposition he might be a notch below the very best because of the quality of opposition he fought... It is close, but I think this fact puts him below a bit.

                    nathan sturley max baer likes this.

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