Tunney & The Absence Of Black Fighters On His Resume.

[Ivich]

You're all over the place, and none of it is correct. Your ignorant response of Wills deserving a shot but looking poor was wrong, as usual, in response to Ivich stating (correctly) that Wills had already been in several eliminators. Now you're trying to say the shot went to Sharkey. But we're talking about Tunney getting the undeserved shot instead of Harry. After fighting for so long as the best available challenger to the heavyweight title I'm sure the wind went out of Wills sails when yet another fighter got a shot instead of him. You have serious problems following a timeline.

And telling the truth!lol

[Ivich]

Wills was as dirty a fighter as Dempsey is purported to be. His KD against Firpo was blatant and might have today gotten him DQed.

One reporter suggested that the cheap shot KD damaged Firpo and affected him the rest of the fight.

I am not sure I buy into that, the cheap shot came early on in the fight but nevertheless Firpo did fade after it happened.

Firpo trained himself for this fight to save money,and was not in good shape.Wills was known to take liberties.

[QueensburyRules]

You're all over the place, and none of it is correct. Your ignorant response of Wills deserving a shot but looking poor was wrong, as usual, in response to Ivich stating (correctly) that Wills had already been in several eliminators. Now you're trying to say the shot went to Sharkey. But we're talking about Tunney getting the undeserved shot instead of Harry. After fighting for so long as the best available challenger to the heavyweight title I'm sure the wind went out of Wills sails when yet another fighter got a shot instead of him. You have serious problems following a timeline.

- - U slurping Vitchy French Snail poot...priceless. Boxing had no official eliminators that Orgs today like to impose.

Rickard may have proposed the first one, but he didn't call it an eliminator.

[JAB5239]

- - U slurping Vitchy French Snail poot...priceless. Boxing had no official eliminators that Orgs today like to impose.

Rickard may have proposed the first one, but he didn't call it an eliminator.

Doesn't matter what it was called. You're still all over the place and Wills was seen as the best challenger for more than half a decade. Than you tried to say the shot went to Sharkey. Lmao.....you are truly less than a halfwit.

[Ivich]

- - u slurping vitchy french snail poot...priceless. Boxing had no official eliminators that orgs today like to impose.

Rickard may have proposed the first one, but he didn't call it an eliminator.

Actually he called them both eliminators.

[JAB5239]

Actually he called them both eliminators.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Wills promised a shot at Dempsey if he got by Fulton? I personally don't care what it's called, but if that is not terms for an eliminator I don't know what is.

[Ivich]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Wills promised a shot at Dempsey if he got by Fulton? I personally don't care what it's called, but if that is not terms for an eliminator I don't know what is.

You are right.

ttps://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030193/1920-07-27/ed-1/seq-16/

[Willie Pep 229]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Wills promised a shot at Dempsey if he got by Fulton? I personally don't care what it's called, but if that is not terms for an eliminator I don't know what is.

Neither Kearns nor Rickard ever promised Wills jack as far as I know. Both made lots of noise but never committed to anything.

The NYSAC (James Farley) may have but that meant nothing to Kearns. ****

Fitzsimmons and Dempsey did make a "promise" (Contract without a fixed date) to Wills in 1926 and Dempsey did suffer a court judgement against him when he reneged. But that promise was not connected to any elimination bout.

Jab, you try often to apply today's values and standards to a past time. That may be what a good man wants to do, but it does not work and you end up down political rabbit holes.

**** The NYSAC was created (or recreated if you like) under the Jimmy Walker Law in 1920. It was meant to regulate the prize fighting game.

Why it took on the right to claim 'rightful' contenders to titles is puzzling to me. Its claim to that power seems to have been a product of indidual agendas, in particular Muldoon and his racism, and Farley and his pro-Negro politics.

I wonder if we could ever read the Walker law and see what was actually intended for the NYSAC to do?

I always felt its job was to sanction prize fights, ensuring their honesty and safety but I question if they meant for it to set a criteria for 'a right to a title shot.'

I would really like to read its original charter.

[JAB5239]

Neither Kearns nor Rickard ever promised Wills jack as far as I know. Both made lots of noise but never committed to anything.

The NYSAC (James Farley) may have but that meant nothing to Kearns. ****

Fitzsimmons and Dempsey did make a "promise" (Contract without a fixed date) to Wills in 1926 and Dempsey did suffer a court judgement against him when he reneged. But that promise was not connected to any elimination bout.

Jab, you try often to apply today's values and standards to a past time. That may be what a good man wants to do, but it does not work and you end up down political rabbit holes.

**** The NYSAC was created (or recreated if you like) under the Jimmy Walker Law in 1920. It was meant to regulate the prize fighting game.

Why it took on the right to claim 'rightful' contenders to titles is puzzling to me. Its claim to that power seems to have been a product of indidual agendas, in particular Muldoon and his racism, and Farley and his pro-Negro politics.

I wonder if we could ever read the Walker law and see what was actually intended for the NYSAC to do?

I always felt its job was to sanction prize fights, ensuring their honesty and safety but I question if they meant for it to set a criteria for 'a right to a title shot.'

I would really like to read its original charter.

Kearns I believe is on record saying the fight is made. I'll have to look it up later, I'm at work right now.

[Willie Pep 229]

Kearns I believe is on record saying the fight is made. I'll have to look it up later, I'm at work right now.

Oh, absolutely he said that. More than once. That's what I meant by "noise." BUT . . .

He never signed anything. Once he even left Rickard and Mullins sitting in Rickard's office waiting for him only to find he had left town the night before.

There are three different times, in 1922 alone, where Kearns blew enough smoke up everyone's ass, that the New York Times stated "the fight is on, papers to be signed today." But, nah, Kearns even had the audacity to just leave town once.

Most often he would say Dempsey is ready to fight Wills and then just offer unrealistic terms.

Yes, you can definitely find Kearns saying Dempsey's ready to fight Wills. But find a signed deal, no!

Anyway I was in particular addressing the concept of forcing Wills into an elimination bout with a title shot promise tacked on.

I don't remember Kearns in 22 or '23 ever holding an elimination fight over Wills' head with a promise.

The interesting one, is what was Rickard saying to Mullins regarding a Wills-Tunney fight in 1926?

By then, Kearns is all gone and it is Rickard who has Dempsey's ear.

But I can't find even an absolute challenge for a Tunney-Wills go, yet several people on this forum claim one or the other ducked, never mind a promise that it was an eliminator.

Most importantly I would like to read that Rickard in 1926 made Wills a promise, that if he beat Tunney he would get a shot at Dempsey.

I doubt that Rickard made that promise but would like to read about it if someone has a source.

In 1922, there was much NOISE, but no real promises. Kearns was yanking everyone's chain.