Tunney & The Absence Of Black Fighters On His Resume.

[JAB5239]

- - The $$$ was there, $300K apiece with the venue first in Boston and then NYC, both guaranteed by Harry Frazee, the owner of the Boston White Sox where the first fight was scheduled, and then brand spanking new Yankee Stadium, a literal MONUMENT to Baseball.

State and City leaders refused to sanction the fight. You could look it up as Casey Stengel used to opine.

That was 1926. He had years to make a fight but never did even when Wills was voted as the most desirable opponent for Dempsey in 1922 I believe.

[billeau2]

So has the OP!

I did not know that story on swimming out to ocean liners and diving off the deck! That seems to be impossible as ocean liners are not level with the water and are built several feet up to the deck making access from swimmers impossible. If you read this somewhere, it is likely wrong.

Tunney stated it and it is not wrong... I have been wrong in the past, at times took something from memory that was not quite so, but this was in Tunney's words. The game was to stow on the liner at birth, or as it was leaving birth, let it start moving outwards and dive. The swimming out was essentially to stow for the dive, that is how I understood it.

I should have clarified "swimming" which I meant to indicate how the vessel was boarded, which I do not know how this was accomplished, but Tunney was not given to tall tales as much as occasional statements that raise a few eyebrows like how a puncher would do against a gorilla.

[billeau2]

Could Dempsey have made the wills fight happen?

That my friend... Is a something I would put in very small font... It would be the equivalent of asking the bride to be in a loud voice "I noticed your beautiful white dress, are you in fact a ******?" Or going to a psychoanalysis convention and asking if there really was such a difference of opinion between Jung and his Archetypes and Floyd and his trifecta of Id--Ego--Super ego.

Such words will bring in the big guns... legendary posters who have debated this for years! With such Bile at times...

[QueensburyRules]

That was 1926. He had years to make a fight but never did even when Wills was voted as the most desirable opponent for Dempsey in 1922 I believe.

- - It was 1922/23 after Jack set the Purse and Gate record vs Carpentier. Already gave the details.

You've never done a lick of research in your life, the reason you turned to Mickey Finns.

[JAB5239]

- - It was 1922/23 after Jack set the Purse and Gate record vs Carpentier. Already gave the details.

You've never done a lick of research in your life, the reason you turned to Mickey Finns.

Hers a timeline for you.

1921
July 2 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Georges Carpintier

1922
January 2 Harry Wills loses to Bill Tate via DQ

January 6 Harry Wills draws against Bill Tate

March 2 Harry Wills defeats Kid Norfolk

June 11 Jack Dempsey signs articles to fight Harry Wills

July 24 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Jimmy Darcy

September 4 Jack Dempsey is scheduled to fight Bill Brennan, but the fight is disallowed by the Mayor


1923
July 4 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Tommy Gibbons

July 12 Luis Firpo defeats Jess Willard

September 14 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Luis Firpo


1924
September 6 Jack Dempsey is scheduled to fight Harry Wills, but the fight is disallowed by the New York State Athletic commission

September 11 Harry Wills defeats Luis Firpo


1925
February 1 Jack Dempsey formally announces his retirement from the ring, and splits with Kearns

June 5 Gene Tunney defeats Tommy Gibbons

July 17 Dempsey appears before the New York Licencing Commission, and agrees to fight Harry Wills

September 28 Dempsey signs articles to fight Harry Wills, but his cheque subsequently bounces

[Willie Pep 229]

September 4 Jack Dempsey is scheduled to fight Bill Brennan, but the fight is disallowed by the Mayor

This occurred but it was Muldoon who blocked the fight not the Mayor.

I have always argued that it was Doc Kearns who was ducking Tex Rickard's involvement, and not Dempsey who was ducking Wills (in 1922).

This is another perfect example that supports my theory.

Doc Kearns had originally proposed this fight (rematch) to Michigan City, Indiana but when that fight fell through, Tex Rickard jumped at a chance to bring the fight to New York.

But for his own reasons Muldoon refused to sanction the fight so Rickard started exploring New Jersey as a possible venue. (Boyles 30 Acres).

At this point, Kearns fled the City and went out west making it impossible for Rickard to make any headway with the Garden State.

New York Times, August 31st, 1922

Departure of Kearns Holds Up Agreement to Transfer Match to New Jersey

Everyone likes to claim that Dempsey was ducking Wills (in1922) but I maintain that it wasn't Wills Kearns was avoiding but in fact Rickard.

We see here, even with Harry Wills not in the picture Kearns still wanted no part of an Eastern based fight, one in which Rickard would most definitely have been involved with.

Thus Kearns once again ran out west and eventually blew everything apart in Shellby Montana (Gibbons, July 1923) and in doing so drove an angry Dempsey straight back into Tex Rickard's hands anyway (Firpo September 1923).

I believe Dempsey's announced retirement in 1924 was in fact a decision to never fight for Kearns again.

They, Dempsey-Kearns had a ten year handshake deal starting in 1916 and in Dempsey's mind that deal ended Janurary 1926.

Only then (1926) did Dempsey once again earnestly start seeking to again fight.

[QueensburyRules]

Hers a timeline for you.

1921
July 2 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Georges Carpintier

1922
January 2 Harry Wills loses to Bill Tate via DQ

January 6 Harry Wills draws against Bill Tate

March 2 Harry Wills defeats Kid Norfolk

June 11 Jack Dempsey signs articles to fight Harry Wills

July 24 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Jimmy Darcy

September 4 Jack Dempsey is scheduled to fight Bill Brennan, but the fight is disallowed by the Mayor


1923
July 4 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Tommy Gibbons

July 12 Luis Firpo defeats Jess Willard

September 14 Jack Dempsey defends his title against Luis Firpo


1924
September 6 Jack Dempsey is scheduled to fight Harry Wills, but the fight is disallowed by the New York State Athletic commission

September 11 Harry Wills defeats Luis Firpo


1925
February 1 Jack Dempsey formally announces his retirement from the ring, and splits with Kearns

June 5 Gene Tunney defeats Tommy Gibbons

July 17 Dempsey appears before the New York Licencing Commission, and agrees to fight Harry Wills

September 28 Dempsey signs articles to fight Harry Wills, but his cheque subsequently bounces

- - Step outside and you can see the sun, sky, and clouds, but only when you can pull your noggin out of your keister.

Jimmy Darcy doesn't appear on Dempsey's record here;

BoxRec: Jack Dempsey

[JAB5239]

- - Step outside and you can see the sun, sky, and clouds, but only when you can pull your noggin out of your keister.

Jimmy Darcy doesn't appear on Dempsey's record here;

BoxRec: Jack Dempsey

You were saying something??? You really need to do some research before running your yap.

https://www.backcreekbooks.com/pages/books/891/boxing/souvenir-program-jack-dempsey-vs-jimmy-darcy-exhibition-bout-july-26-1922?soldItem=true

Jack Dempsey and Jimmy Darcy fought in a four-round boxing match on July 22, 1922 at Buffalo's Broadway Auditorium. Dempsey, the world heavyweight champion at the time, boxed Darcy in a "masterly fashion" and won the fight, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. However, it's unclear if the fight was a legitimate title defense or just an exhibition that was called a title defense.

[Willie Pep 229]

You were saying something??? You really need to do some research before running your yap.

https://www.backcreekbooks.com/pages...?soldItem=true

Jack Dempsey and Jimmy Darcy fought in a four-round boxing match on July 22, 1922 at Buffalo's Broadway Auditorium. Dempsey, the world heavyweight champion at the time, boxed Darcy in a "masterly fashion" and won the fight, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. However, it's unclear if the fight was a legitimate title defense or just an exhibition that was called a title defense.

Stole this from something called the 13th Round but he does cite a local newspaper as his source.

The only person calling this a title defense was Muldoon everyone else says it was an exhibition right down to the oversized gloves they wore, to Dempsey wearing training tights not trunks, and no one paying any attention to the judges scorecards.


[EXCERPT]

Broadway Auditorium in Buffalo, in a fight the New York State Athletic Commission insisted be for the World Heavyweight Championship. However, the Buffalo Evening News reported: "Dempsey buffeted Jimmy Darcy around with BIG GLOVES for four rounds." It goes on to state that while the NYSAC commission sent word that they did not recognize exhibition bouts, the Buffalo Evening News goes on to state that the bout "went on for the whole four rounds to a decision, though nobody heard the official verdict." The Buffalo Courier stated: "Jack Dempsey defeated Jimmy Darcy four round exhibition, judges decision." In the accompanying article, it refers to the bout several times as an exhibition. Dempsey was dressed for an exhibition, wearing long blue tights, not trunks, and using pillow-sized gloves. And on July 7, just two weeks before this bout, Dempsey appeared in a four-round exhibition in Syracuse against the same Jimmy Darcy, who coincidentally was a sparring partner of Dempsey. The commission did say the day after the bout that the championship could have changed hands if Darcy won, but the evidence appears to indicate there was no legitimate chance of that happening. Thus, this fight has been deleted from the official record.

ORIGINAL SOURCE LINK:

https://www.the13thround.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=36579

[Marchegiano]

Stole this from something called the 13th Round but he does cite a local newspaper as his source.

The only person calling this a title defense was Muldoon everyone else says it was an exhibition right down to the oversized gloves they wore, to Dempsey wearing training tights not trunks, and no one paying any attention to the judges scorecards.


[EXCERPT]

Broadway Auditorium in Buffalo, in a fight the New York State Athletic Commission insisted be for the World Heavyweight Championship. However, the Buffalo Evening News reported: "Dempsey buffeted Jimmy Darcy around with BIG GLOVES for four rounds." It goes on to state that while the NYSAC commission sent word that they did not recognize exhibition bouts, the Buffalo Evening News goes on to state that the bout "went on for the whole four rounds to a decision, though nobody heard the official verdict." The Buffalo Courier stated: "Jack Dempsey defeated Jimmy Darcy four round exhibition, judges decision." In the accompanying article, it refers to the bout several times as an exhibition. Dempsey was dressed for an exhibition, wearing long blue tights, not trunks, and using pillow-sized gloves. And on July 7, just two weeks before this bout, Dempsey appeared in a four-round exhibition in Syracuse against the same Jimmy Darcy, who coincidentally was a sparring partner of Dempsey. The commission did say the day after the bout that the championship could have changed hands if Darcy won, but the evidence appears to indicate there was no legitimate chance of that happening. Thus, this fight has been deleted from the official record.

ORIGINAL SOURCE LINK:

https://www.the13thround.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=36579

I was able to track one of the articles in that link to its source.

I think the bit you're citing is from an entirely different article.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/box9-99.htm#dempsey

I don't currently have a sub to any paper archive service but that's usually my next step. The Buffalo Evening News and The Buffalo Courier are quoted so ... it's not source-less.