The fact that Ali was complaining about how hard Rocky was hitting…

[them_apples]

I really don't wish to annoy you ,but most of this is racially stereotyped tosh.

Leverage plays a big part in punching power but several factors need to be considered,when the effects of punches is evaluated
Q Is the target stationary?
Q.Is the target moving away?
Q.Is the target hit flush?
imo Timing is the most important part of punching. Zhilei Zhang dropped Parker with a straight from the shoulder shot,no rotation from the hips .just a well timed straight punch .
Some guys are just blessed with heavy hands.Foreman was an example and,to a lesser extent Vitali,both knocked men down with arm punches.Others like Satterfield , Ketchel ,and Wilder swung from the fences,and others still like Louis and Dempsey could drop you with punches that did not travel more than 6 inches.

You are right that timing is everything as well as balance. But from a strictly generating power standpoint its all leverage

[Slugfester]

So far, to me, this business of knocking fighters out with 6 inch punches is baloney. I have watched thousands of fights and I have never seen anyone knocked out with a 6 inch punch. I have heard announcers blurt it out many times, perpetuating one of boxing's oldest myths.

Sure, it is possible to knock someone out with a 6 inch punch, but I have never seen it. Upon inspection it is never 6 inches but at least a foot or more. Until someone shows me an example (2 examples actually), this 6 inch business is pure baloney to me. If you have examples, show them. I am wondering if anyone has any examples because I am wondering if examples even exist. I have seen many fighters KOd with short punches, but 6 inches no. I don't need to hear anything about Bruce Lee's phony 1 inch punch either. It was baloney.

The closest I saw anyone get was Dempsey, but the punch obviously was not a mere 6 inches. Make me a believer.

[Ivich]

So far, to me, this business of knocking fighters out with 6 inch punches is baloney. I have watched thousands of fights and I have never seen anyone knocked out with a 6 inch punch. I have heard announcers blurt it out many times, perpetuating one of boxing's oldest myths.

Sure, it is possible to knock someone out with a 6 inch punch, but I have never seen it. Upon inspection it is never 6 inches but at least a foot or more. Until someone shows me an example (2 examples actually), this 6 inch business is pure baloney to me. If you have examples, show them. I am wondering if anyone has any examples because I am wondering if examples even exist. I have seen many fighters KOd with short punches, but 6 inches no. I don't need to hear anything about Bruce Lee's phony 1 inch punch either. It was baloney.

The closest I saw anyone get was Dempsey, but the punch obviously was not a mere 6 inches. Make me a believer.

This was my statement.

"Louis and Dempsey could drop you with punches that did not travel more than 6 inches."
I stand by it,having had a cataract op yesterday,I am not going to view a series of fights,but,if memory serves, Dempsey dropped Firpo with a short [6 inch.] punch.

[Ivich]

Those are quotes from fighters in the ring with him. But we can watch the fight ourselves. Walcott wasnÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt in that fight, he was surviving and taking damage in the process. There was no outboxing of Marciano. I am not sure where people make this stuff up, Ive watched his fights so many times and all of them steamroll in one direction after 5 rounds. Charles ans walcott arent outboxing him they are surviving. Same with Moore.

when Walcott says Marciano took his best shots etc etc ya thats just it, walcott could do nothing to the Rock and the rock could hurt him. Walcott makes excuses about everyone.

You put Rocky in with someone who just wants to stand and swing and its gonna be a short night.

the fights you mention that gave him trouble, I watch them with the commentary turned off. Every single one of them is one sided after 5 rounds, and progressively gets worse. The only reason Rocky didnt level these guys sooner is they were able to run from him because he is small with a short reach.

• Going into the 13th round, Walcott was ahead on all three official scorecards. Early in the round, Walcott backed up to the ropes and began to launch a right hand, but Marciano beat him to it and put him down for the count with a right to the jaw.
• The fight was named The Ring Fight of the Year.

Walcott and Charles did not run from Rocky,neither did Louis or Moore.

• You put Rocky in with
• Liston
• Foreman
• Lewis
• And it will definitely be a short night!

[Slugfester]

• Going into the 13th round, Walcott was ahead on all three official scorecards. Early in the round, Walcott backed up to the ropes and began to launch a right hand, but Marciano beat him to it and put him down for the count with a right to the jaw.
• The fight was named The Ring Fight of the Year.

Walcott and Charles did not run from Rocky,neither did Louis or Moore.

• You put Rocky in with
• Liston
• Foreman
• Lewis
• And it will definitely be a short night!

I'll take a look at any clip when I have time. By the way, my comment was not directed at you, though I can see why you might think so. Your allusion simply provided the opportunity to address a subject I have meant to bring up for a long time.

Dempsey/Firpo was my own example too. Of course it was not a knockout punch but a mere knockdown, which can and do occur for multiple reasons other than the force of a punch. The 6 inch punch with the best chance of knocking anyone out is an uppercut.

Okay I will get my tape measure out one more time to remind me of what 6 inches is while I watch the action again a few times. I still say it is a boxing cliche for short punches that knock someone down or have some other dramatic effect. I am not arguing the difference between 6 inches or 8 inches, I am saying that all these fabled 6 inch punches travel at least a foot or are the tail end of a barrage or combination that already did half the work or more. Show me a 6 inch punch by itself clearly knocking out a non-scrub. I don't care about Andy down at the local boxing club.

I am not saying a 6 inch punch unaided never knocked anyone good out, either, but that all the examples I have looked at traveled more than 6 inches. Any unlikely event has occurred a few times in boxing. But fact is--yet--I do not endorse any 6 inch KO punches.

I viewed Dempsey/Firpo half a dozen times again. Same opinion. I suggest to anyone: get a tape measure out and pin it to 6 inches while you hold it during the punch.

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't have an opinion on the staged fight but my father did.

He was an Italian-American and saw Rocky fight a few times.

When watching the computer match-up he burst out laughing and said "Marciano never caught that many punches with his gloves, he caught them with his face." He waved the whole thing off as a joke.

[Bundana]

Also from a race theory

understand that Marciano is an old italian. Skin colour is not the only factor in regards to race.

old purebred Italians are no longer around.

the white people in boxing range from irish, slavic, german (aryan), french (celtic + latin), british (anglo+ latin roots)

so yeah blacks dominate boxing but there are no good white fighters anymore.

the 2 best fighters h2h are likely white. Greb and Marciano. On a per night bases these guys will beat just about everyone. A purebread Aryan and a purebred Italian w roots from Tuscany a place with a long history of gladitorial blood sports and a breeding ground for legionaires.

so its not as simple as black and white. Even Arabs when in a cold country start looking white due to them becoming pale, they share similar skin to Mediterraneans.

you are right though on average blacks tend to have longer limbs and smaller bodys (proportionally) giving them great speed and mobility just like old Italians on average had iron chins and natural strength.

but punching comes down to strictly leverage. A long limbed person only hits hard at the end of their shots. A short limbed person does as well, but the end of their punches happens to be at close range.

When you say the old Italians on average had iron chins... I take it you mean, that they were naturally stronger chinned than today's average Italians, right? I'd like to know, what you base that on?

So there are no good white fighters anymore? Another strange (to put it mildly) observation!

[them_apples]

• Going into the 13th round, Walcott was ahead on all three official scorecards. Early in the round, Walcott backed up to the ropes and began to launch a right hand, but Marciano beat him to it and put him down for the count with a right to the jaw.
• The fight was named The Ring Fight of the Year.

Walcott and Charles did not run from Rocky,neither did Louis or Moore.

• You put Rocky in with
• Liston
• Foreman
• Lewis
• And it will definitely be a short night!

Yes but watch the actual fight. They are survival stories. If any of them stood still it would have been curtains and was. Liston was scared of Rocky and sounded very much like Ali in his admiration of Rocky, saying he would be the hardest man to beat. Apparently rocky raged at Liston who was agitating him at a fight camp. Eventually Rocky got mad and said grab some gloves and trunks. Liston and his team ran.

Its on espn

[them_apples]

When you say the old Italians on average had iron chins... I take it you mean, that they were naturally stronger chinned than today's average Italians, right? I'd like to know, what you base that on?

So there are no good white fighters anymore? Another strange (to put it mildly) observation!

but there are always exceptions if thats what you want to hear?

and yeah there are no good fighters in General now, I don’t think its a skin thing.

and yes because there is a certain look you can see and almost guarantee someone has a good chin. And if certain races sport this you can call it a stereotype

[Ivich]

Yes but watch the actual fight. They are survival stories. If any of them stood still it would have been curtains and was. Liston was scared of Rocky and sounded very much like Ali in his admiration of Rocky, saying he would be the hardest man to beat. Apparently rocky raged at Liston who was agitating him at a fight camp. Eventually Rocky got mad and said grab some gloves and trunks. Liston and his team ran.

Its on espn

I repeat Walcott, Charles,Moore,Louis did not run from Rocky nor did ****ell


Lastarza was a stationary target for the last few rounds against Rocky, but he was stopped on his feet.

The Liston thing is total BS.produce a verified source for all your claims,like you haven't done for Ali throwing lethal shots.
Liston imo, would have beaten the **** out of Marciano ,no short swarmer beats prime Sonny.
At range Liston would bust him up with his jab, inside Liston's strength and power would brutalise him.