Evidence of fixing fights

[beautyistruth]

Not that anyone didn't have some su****ions, but "No Mas" likely was a fix too... https://ringobserver.com/1988-scoop-...ch-to-leonard/

[Marchegiano]

Yankee Sullivan vs John Morrissey is my favorite. I'll do a cliff notes version.

John was the leader of a gang, the gang was present at the fight and armed. Yankee was to lose the fight or his life. Sullivan beat Morrissey to a pulp and left him bleeding on the floor, but, before the ref had time to count John out, it was 30 seconds back then, Yankee left the ring and prompted a ten second count out. He lost to John Morrissey, technically, which was all the Dead Rabbits needed because they were more concerned with the betting than John's wellbeing. Later John Morrissey would use his gang to strong arm voters into making him a senator Because criminals have ran this nation the entire time.

[Marchegiano]

Joe may have been protected. Schmeling figured him out the first fight and then could have rolled over and dove in the rematch. The money market for boxing then was America, Germany was destroyed. It's plausible the American mafia paid Schmeling to eat those shots and install the far more marketable Louis as the franchise.

I don't mean to distract you from the conversation you are having. I am just curious if you ever thought it was a bit suspect the only Italian or German citizens to become HW champions ever in the history of boxing happened during a time when the IBU had control over European boxing and the Europeans in the IBU were disproportionately *******?

Spain's greatest HW ever just happens to make those ranks at a time when Spain, Germany, and Italy controlled the ranking board.

Coincidence?

[Eff Pandas]

Fight fixing seems like too big a term for what happens more often. Usually they get a 12-0 guy or something like that & throw him in with a 8-15-1 kinda guy who's been KO'd 9x who hasn't made any outloud agreement to lose, but knows his role is to lose so just sorta shows up, makes weight, moves around the ring without doing a whole lot to win & goes home with his money. Not as sexy as the envelope full of money being handed to another guy in the dark alley the week before the fight, but its a fixed fight all the same.

[Willie Pep 229]

Not that anyone didn't have some su****ions, but "No Mas" likely was a fix too... https://ringobserver.com/1988-scoop-...ch-to-leonard/

Why would Duran tank that fight?

He made six million. A second victory that night insures he stays in the multi-million purse range.

Instead the lost left him having to grab 500K for his next few fights.

So how much would it have cost to buy him that night?

Five million, Only maybe is that enough. But with even that low number, how, in a 1980 economy, do the gangsters recoup their expenditures and then profit from their bets?

Bets that large would have been noticed; Vegas tracks in detail every large bet.

I repeat, just how much money would they have had to put at risk, to pull off a cross fight?

The numbers don't work for me.

Besides, there were no long odds worth exploiting in Leonard-Duran II. They went off close to even money.

None of this seems probable to me.

[mrbig1]

Here's the deal. Randy Gordon told me that the second fight with Ali was not fixed. He spoke with Liston's corner. Liston was very afraid of the Nation of Islam. We have to remember that three months earlier Malcolm X was murdered.

[Willie Pep 229]

Fight fixing seems like too big a term for what happens more often. Usually they get a 12-0 guy or something like that & throw him in with a 8-15-1 kinda guy who's been KO'd 9x who hasn't made any outloud agreement to lose, but knows his role is to lose so just sorta shows up, makes weight, moves around the ring without doing a whole lot to win & goes home with his money. Not as sexy as the envelope full of money being handed to another guy in the dark alley the week before the fight, but its a fixed fight all the same.

I agree that is the chief malady facing the fight game. Many bad performances and worst, dangerous mismatches.

But I would call them 'arranged or understood' events. See: 'Mr Reliable' Kristian Laight.

A fix fight should involve a ******** cash grab, or at least a promisd title shot, E.g. LaMotta-Fox.

Something tangible.

The other thing is how the game fight builds "champions." It's a marketing thing.

[Eff Pandas]

I agree that is the chief malady facing the fight game. Many bad performances and worst, dangerous mismatches.

But I would call them 'arranged or understood' events. See: 'Mr Reliable' Kristian Laight.

A fix fight should involve a ******** cash grab, or at least a promisd title shot, E.g. LaMotta-Fox.

Something tangible.

The other thing is how the game fight builds "champions." It's a marketing thing.

I'd argue any fight where the winner is predetermined, even if only by one party, is fixed. One could easily be the only side knowing they aren't in a fight to win & make a bet on it, so idk that the betting part needs to be part of the definition of a fixed fight, but if you think it does its a part of my example too. Its just more likely you'd bet on the over/under, ko/dec or an exact rd you'd lose in over taking the ML on the likely big favorite.

I definitely don't think a title shot matters. I think the angles more often mentioned with fight fixing are just sexier for fans to think/talk about & rarer than the standard predetermined fight I brought up which is boring & common.

[Willie Pep 229]

Joe may have been protected. Schmeling figured him out the first fight and then could have rolled over and dove in the rematch. The money market for boxing then was America, Germany was destroyed. It's plausible the American mafia paid Schmeling to eat those shots and install the far more marketable Louis as the franchise.

I think you timeline is off. The rematch took place in 1938. Germany was on the rise to becoming a world power. Certainly not destroyed.

I think you overestimate the power of the mob (and unfairly judge the character of prize fighting). Even Frankie Carbo, whose IBC was being called 'The Octopus,' for its strangle hold on boxing, didn't always get what he wanted.

Why would Schmeling tank the 1938 fight? He wins that fight he becomes a lesser god in Germany, at a point where the **** were not yet the horror they would become. Kristallnacht was still five months away.

[beautyistruth]

I think you timeline is off. The rematch took place in 1938. Germany was on the rise to becoming a world power. Certainly not destroyed.

I think you overestimate the power of the mob (and unfairly judge the character of prize fighting). Even Frankie Carbo, whose IBC was being called 'The Octopus,' for its strangle hold on boxing, didn't always get what he wanted.

Why would Schmeling tank the 1938 fight? He wins that fight he becomes a lesser god in Germany, at a point where the **** were not yet the horror they would become. Kristallnacht was still five months away.

He was given an offer he could not refuse. And the US boxing mafia had their franchise to control and sell.