Fact: Jack Johnson Agreed to fight Joe Jeanette for Championship Title

[travestyny]

I've been seeing the usual suspect still spreading lies, so let's get this one out of the way.

Jack Johnson agreed to fight Joe Jeanette for the Heavy Title in 1912 only to have the fight pulled by the NY Commission.

Promoters, Johnson, Jeanette's manager, media, and other boxers are all on record saying that it was to be for the championship.

--The Evening World (New York)


"To prevent title from slipping away" -- El Paso Herald


Johnson's reaction to the commission's cancelation.

Of course it was to be for the championship. That was the whole reason Jeanette was after Johnson.

What's the point of continuing to lie about this? If anyone has any information at all that this fight was not to be for the championship, please post it here. If not, stop lying on our champions. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Willie Pep 229]

I've been seeing the usual suspect still spreading lies, so let's get this one out of the way.

Jack Johnson agreed to fight Joe Jeanette for the Heavy Title in 1912 only to have the fight pulled by the NY Commission.

Promoters, Johnson, Jeanette's manager, media, and other boxers are all on record saying that it was to be for the championship.

--The Evening World (New York)


"To prevent title from slipping away" -- El Paso Herald


Johnson's reaction to the commission's cancelation.

Of course it was to be for the championship. That was the whole reason Jeanette was after Johnson.

What's the point of continuing to lie about this? If anyone has any information at all that this fight was not to be for the championship, please post it here. If not, stop lying on our champions. You should be ashamed of yourself.

OK cool -- but who called it off? There was no NYSAC until 1920. Someone put the nix on the fight but who? Am I missing where it says who?

[travestyny]

OK cool -- but who called it off? There was no NYSAC until 1920. Someone put the nix on the fight but who? Am I missing where it says who?

[Willie Pep 229]

Cool -- Thank You.

I wonder what commission O'Neil and Dixon were head of, what law it was created under. Do you know what act/law was relevant at this time?

This is August 1912 and that means it is likely part of the southern Blue Dog Senators' move against Johnson, who were determined to shut Johnson out of all the States.

The phrase of the day was 'to starve the negro out of the title.'

They almost got their way but New Mexico (ironically in the same month it gained Statehood) announced they would host the fight in East Las Vegas, New Mexico. (Flynn-Johnson, July 4th)

The Blue Dog's next move was to pass an interstate prohibition against transporting fight films (Sims Law) in late July, cutting off all possible revenue from the film.

Johnson won't fight again until Paris.

This Commission was likely going with what was the national flow.

Me thinks, Johnson vs. Jeannette had nothing to do with it, Jeannette just got screwed again, and it wasn't even about him.

I would still like to know more about the O'Neil/Dixon Commission history.

[ShoulderRoll]

Johnson fought Jeannette 10 times and was even willing to defend the title against him.

I don't get why this is even an issue.

[travestyny]

Cool -- Thank You.

I wonder what commission O'Neil and Dixon were head of, what law it was created under. Do you know what act/law was relevant at this time?

This is August 1912 and that means it is likely part of the southern Blue Dog Senators' move against Johnson, who were determined to shut Johnson out of all the States.

The phrase of the day was 'to starve the negro out of the title.'

They almost got their way but New Mexico (ironically in the same month it gained Statehood) announced they would host the fight in East Las Vegas, New Mexico. (Flynn-Johnson, July 4th)

The Blue Dog's next move was to pass an interstate prohibition against transporting fight films (Sims Law) in late July, cutting off all possible revenue from the film.

Johnson won't fight again until Paris.

This Commission was likely going with what was the national flow.

Me thinks, Johnson vs. Jeannette had nothing to do with it, Jeannette just got screwed again, and it wasn't even about him.

I would still like to know more about the O'Neil/Dixon Commission history.

From what I know, the commission at the time had the rule that Johnson was not going to be allowed to fight in NY, but this was understood to mean that he would not be allowed to fight white boxers (those who were considered no hopers). It wasn't thought that this would apply to two black fighters.

When MSG went after the Johnson/Jeanette fight, the NY commission was silent on the matter and seemed to be allowing things to progress (rumors that some commissioners had vested interest in MSG). But MSG fell short of the offer Johnson was looking for and the McMahon brothers swooped in and gave him the amount he wanted. Once that happened, because the commission didn't complain about MSG and because it was two black heavyweights, it was thought that the fight would go through. Also, the promoters were informed that the commission couldn't stop the fight. However, the commission decided not to allow Jack Johnson at all. It was under the Frawley act that this took place, but it seems they added some extra rule to keep Johnson out. Though it was true that the commission couldn't stop the fight, the commission made it clear that they could revoke licenses of any promoters who stage the fight, and that was enough to get this one put to bed.

[travestyny]

Johnson fought Jeannette 10 times and was even willing to defend the title against him.

I don't get why this is even an issue.

Exactly. Just the usual guy who feels some kind of way about the actions of one of his favorite fighters, so he feels a need to try to tarnish others with lies. It's honestly pretty damn pathetic and shameful.

[Willie Pep 229]

From what I know, the commission at the time had the rule that Johnson was not going to be allowed to fight in NY, but this was understood to mean that he would not be allowed to fight white boxers (those who were considered no hopers). It wasn't thought that this would apply to two black fighters.

When MSG went after the Johnson/Jeanette fight, the NY commission was silent on the matter and seemed to be allowing things to progress (rumors that some commissioners had vested interest in MSG). But MSG fell short of the offer Johnson was looking for and the McMahon brothers swooped in and gave him the amount he wanted. Once that happened, because the commission didn't complain about MSG and because it was two black heavyweights, it was thought that the fight would go through. Also, the promoters were informed that the commission couldn't stop the fight. However, the commission decided not to allow Jack Johnson at all. It was under the Frawley act that this took place, but it seems they added some extra rule to keep Johnson out. Though it was true that the commission couldn't stop the fight, the commission made it clear that they could revoke licenses of any promoters who stage the fight, and that was enough to get this one put to bed.

It was a conspiracy of Progressive reformers, who hated prize fighting and southern gentry who hated Blacks.

No 'duck' here -- in the atmosphere of 1912, this fight never happens.

It was an open conspiracy against Johnson that played out on the floor of Congress. Forget MSG, the whole nation was watching. They didn't want him fighting, making money, period. Black on Black didn't matter, thy were determined not to let him fight.

And they won too. Johnson-Flynn (July 1912) was a financial bust, both with a weak live gate, and no film presentations, plus Johnson doesn't fight again until December 1913 (in Paris). They came close to financially breaking him, as they planned.

The two leading 'white supremacists' in Congress were Thetus Sims (Tennessee) and Seaborn Roddenbery (Georgia). They bragged (Roddenbery did, Sims was a touch more sly) that they would 'cut off the Negro's revenue streams and starve him out of the title.' -- Later on Roddenbery reacted to Johnson's marriage to Lucile Cameron, on floor of the House of Representatives no less, with a grim warning and threat (a real racist tirade,) "granting [a marriage] licence to black skinned, thick-lipped, bull-necked, brutal-hearted African men . . . will lead to another civil war."

P.S. Sorry, I spoke earlier incorrectly, I ID Sims and Roddenbery as Senators, they were instead House representatives. The Senators involved were Augustus Bacon (Georgia) and Furnifold Simmons (North Carolina).

P.S.S. About the Commission, I wonder if Dixon/O'Neil were the ones who lost control of the Dempsey-Jeannette fiasco, in August 1918? In 1912 they didn't seem to have too much control over the MSG owners/promoters, they had to publicly threaten to withhold licences, to keep them in line? Not much finesse.

[travestyny]

It was a conspiracy of Progressive reformers, who hated prize fighting and southern gentry who hated Blacks.

No 'duck' here -- in the atmosphere of 1912, this fight never happens.

It was an open conspiracy against Johnson that played out on the floor of Congress. Forget MSG, the whole nation was watching. They didn't want him fighting, making money, period. Black on Black didn't matter, thy were determined not to let him fight.

And they won too. Johnson-Flynn (July 1912) was a financial bust, both with a weak live gate, and no film presentations, plus Johnson doesn't fight again until December 1913 (in Paris). They came close to financially breaking him, as they planned.

The two leading 'white supremacists' in Congress were Thetus Sims (Tennessee) and Seaborn Roddenbery (Georgia). They bragged (Roddenbery did, Sims was a touch more sly) that they would 'cut off the Negro's revenue streams and starve him out of the title.' -- Later on Roddenbery reacted to Johnson's marriage to Lucile Cameron, on floor of the House of Representatives no less, with a grim warning and threat (a real racist tirade,) "granting [a marriage] licence to black skinned, thick-lipped, bull-necked, brutal-hearted African men . . . will lead to another civil war."

P.S. Sorry, I spoke earlier incorrectly, I ID Sims and Roddenbery as Senators, they were instead House representatives. The Senators involved were Augustus Bacon (Georgia) and Furnifold Simmons (North Carolina).

P.S.S. About the Commission, I wonder if Dixon/O'Neil were the ones who lost control of the Dempsey-Jeannette fiasco, in August 1918? In 1912 they didn't seem to have too much control over the MSG owners/promoters, they had to publicly threaten to withhold licences, to keep them in line? Not much finesse.

Thanks for the info, brotha!

I couldn't fathom walking a day in the shoes of Jack Johnson. The man must have had phenomenal fortitude.

[travestyny]

I would have thought that the poster who has continued to perpetuate this falsehood that Jack Johnson refused to offer Joe Jeanette a title shot would have entered to share with the board his proof so that we may all discuss and learn.

Maybe GhostofDempsey needs a personal invitation?

All I ask is that you leave the lies out of the history section, which should be the most pristine section of the forum. If you are to make claims about deceased (or any) boxers, the least you can do is share with the board your evidence. This should NOT be a place where you spread lies about late, great champions because your feelings are hurt regarding unrelated topics. What kind of boxing fan would do such a selfish, de****able thing?

Come in here and share your proof. You owe that to the history of the sport and to the legacy of both Jack Johnson and Joe Jeanette. After all, they were BOTH victims in this instance. If you never choose to man up, it's a reflection of your character. Just a friendly suggestion: Do better. Stop lying on the late greats. You should be ashamed of yourself.