What's the real story behind Floyd Patterson and his subjugation to Sonny Liston

[Rockin']

This is what I've read:.

Cus felt Sonny Liston was an impossible stylistic match-up for Patterson and Patterson himself did not believe that he would win, even buying things in preparation for losing ( to cover his face).

Now the question is what about Listons style was deemed impossible by Cus? Liston couldn't hurt Eddie Machen (who Ingemar Johansson Koed inside 1 round).

If you moved, Sonny couldn't get to you. He never beat anyone who moved around the ring, unless they ran into him. Sonny had poor athleticism in his right hand

So basically, if you brawled, Sonny Liston shined. Like he did against glass jaw Cleveland Williams . But if he had to get to you, he was NOT a great fighter...he could not get set and land ..anything... His jab could land but that was all.. and against Ali he couldn't even land that consistently.


So anyway, back to Patterson. Why didn't he believe he could win vs Liston?

Um, maybe because he was fighting Liston, who towered over him in height as well as weight, and punched like his fist was a truck.

Why do you refer to everybody as having glass jaws.

Have you ever excepted a blow from professional?................Rockin'

[BKM-]

The truth is Cus was a limited trainer and his fighters were one dimensional.

It is unacceptable for a champion and his trainer to be faced with a foe and they just throw their hands up in hopelessness, like there's not even chance they could win.

[Tanakasensei]

The truth is Cus was a limited trainer and his fighters were one dimensional.

It is unacceptable for a champion and his trainer to be faced with a foe and they just throw their hands up in hopelessness, like there's not even chance they could win.

He never wanted the fight to happen, but that could partly be due to Listons crime connections.

It was a ****** idea making Patterson a heavyweight. He couldn't even jab Ali with that reach disadvantage.
Did Cus insist om HW because you make more money in those divisions?

[_Rexy_]

He never wanted the fight to happen, but that could partly be due to Listons crime connections.

It was a ****** idea making Patterson a heavyweight. He couldn't even jab Ali with that reach disadvantage.
Did Cus insist om HW because you make more money in those divisions?

Heavyweight was 175+ back then. Liston at 215 was considered a beast. Weigh ins were 8 hours before the fight. Floyd was a small heavyweight but it’s where he belonged

[BKM-]

He never wanted the fight to happen, but that could partly be due to Listons crime connections.

It was a ****** idea making Patterson a heavyweight. He couldn't even jab Ali with that reach disadvantage.
Did Cus insist om HW because you make more money in those divisions?

I don't know. I do know that it's problem when you design a style suited for short fighters in a division that is filled with much bigger men.

[Ivich]

Heavyweight was 175+ back then. Liston at 215 was considered a beast. Weigh ins were 8 hours before the fight. Floyd was a small heavyweight but it’s where he belonged

Liston was one inch taller than Patterson.

[Ivich]

He never wanted the fight to happen, but that could partly be due to Listons crime connections.

It was a ****** idea making Patterson a heavyweight. He couldn't even jab Ali with that reach disadvantage.
Did Cus insist om HW because you make more money in those divisions?

Liston's connections were a handy smokescreen for D'Amato,he himself was mob connected to
Fat Tony Salerno,a member of the Genovese family.
Making Patterson a heavyweight turned him into a multi millionaire.

Patterson was ejther , the champion, or a top ten ranked heavyweight for 14 years,anyone beat that?

[Clegg]

Floyd was known for his confidence issues. I haven't read up on the personality of every single HW champ but among those I have, Patterson seems like he had more self doubt than any of the rest. So having to fight Liston, arguably the most intimidating fighter ever, it's not surprising that Floyd wasn't full of belief. His own trainer expecting him to lose made that worse. To his credit, he did eventually overrule Cus and insist on taking the fight.

In terms of why it was a bad style match-up, it depends how specific/general you want to be about it. In the rock/paper/scissors of boxing, shorter aggressive guys do well against guys who come to box because they can often match them for foot speed and hand speed, and they normally cut off the ring well. Once they do, their shorter arms then become an advantage because they go to work inside or at mid-range, where a taller guy might prefer to clinch.

Guys like Liston and Foreman spend the whole fight trying to force their opponents to stand still and trade power. So having a smaller guy come straight at them is exactly what they want. You say that Liston wasn't as good when guys moved away from him, but that's a lot easier said than done and I don't think Patterson had the qualities to pull it off. Frazier changed up his approach for the Foreman rematch, had some good moments but still got stopped.

It's not just a skills things, it's mentality. Shorter guys who can outbox bigger opponents are usually very confident and relaxed, like Whittaker, Mayweather, Pep. Patterson just didn't have the type of mindset to fight that way.

[Tanakasensei]

Liston was one inch taller than Patterson.

But not in reach..

[Tanakasensei]

I think that's what Cus saw. But Patterson hit like a freight train, bigger than Frazier, so I don't know why he didn't think a knockout could happen