The most impressive, evolved modern heavyweight might be James Jeffries!

[billeau2]

A couple of comments:

Chuvalo was a mensch... not bad being compared to in my book.
Jeffries won utilizing his gifts... and it would appear from what we know these were largely based on the ability to be stronger, faster and more durable. No shame in that...

I know he looked good physically, but I would not ascribe much to the Johnson fight, just a personal opinion. Seems Jeffries heart was not in it and that he was coerced by people like London... who were good at coercing people. I don't like to give fighters a pass, and it means something that Johnson won, but one of the reasons I like the history section is: one can go over the circumstances carefully.

I don't think Jeffries was one of the greatest, but I do think his physical gifts, his proportions were an amazing gift from the genetic gods lol.

So why the thread? Jeffries is a very important figure in the history of boxing because he gives us a gauge of sorts, of how fighters of the past would deal, succeed, or fail, against a great athlete (Jeffries). When we ask how would a modern built fighter do, Jeffries gives us some indication about measuring up. Jeffries was very good, and he had an impressive run, but he was also very beatable. Good information.

[Ivich]

A couple of comments:

Chuvalo was a mensch... not bad being compared to in my book.
Jeffries won utilizing his gifts... and it would appear from what we know these were largely based on the ability to be stronger, faster and more durable. No shame in that...

I know he looked good physically, but I would not ascribe much to the Johnson fight, just a personal opinion. Seems Jeffries heart was not in it and that he was coerced by people like London... who were good at coercing people. I don't like to give fighters a pass, and it means something that Johnson won, but one of the reasons I like the history section is: one can go over the circumstances carefully.

I don't think Jeffries was one of the greatest, but I do think his physical gifts, his proportions were an amazing gift from the genetic gods lol.

So why the thread? Jeffries is a very important figure in the history of boxing because he gives us a gauge of sorts, of how fighters of the past would deal, succeed, or fail, against a great athlete (Jeffries). When we ask how would a modern built fighter do, Jeffries gives us some indication about measuring up. Jeffries was very good, and he had an impressive run, but he was also very beatable. Good information.

Choynski thought Jeffries had a mental breakdown before the fight, Jeffries spent the night before the fight looking out of the window unable to sleep,

Jeffries said," his head felt ***** ,"in the early rounds and his judgement of distance was off but he thought he ,"would find himself once he got going,"but he never did,the disorientation may have been the result of mental pressure on him .

It's a good thread, let's hope we can keep it on track!

[billeau2]

Choynski thought Jeffries had a mental breakdown before the fight, Jeffries spent the night before the fight looking out of the window unable to sleep,

Jeffries said," his head felt ***** ,"in the early rounds and his judgement of distance was off but he thought he ,"would find himself once he got going,"but he never did,the disorientation may have been the result of mental pressure on him .

It's a good thread, let's hope we can keep it on track!

Wow! thats interesting...Choynski imo: a fighter that is much better, more of an influence than his record alone warrants. But to your point... It is a little daunting to consider that any sort of mental illness, temporary, or otherwise, was so poorly understood. This persisted (some would say it persists) well into 1950's America. My brother in law was schizophrenic and the options were: "In the attic (there are no basements in most of Southern Louisiana), or build a separate addition." My wife's family built an addition to the house.

Could Jeffries have had some problems? If so, vis a vs my long digression: I doubt we would know about it.

[Dr. Z]

Ever read a negative review of any of Pollack's books? Im not interested in Chuvalo I didnt bring his name into this thread as I've already pointed out!
The only thing that bothers me about you is you are still breathing. You have spent a good week running down Dempsey,how he ducked Kid Norfolk ! lol ' Before that, the same time running down Louis, ducking all black fighters, being mob controlled and having his own judges and referee, remember how you got crucified for that on Classic !

Between them you started on Lennox Lewis how ,after facing Ossie Ocasio whom you said was a southpaw.Lewis made a statement that he would never fight another ,since the sensible people amongst us are well aware that Ocasio, [whom you also said was lighter than Lewis though he weighed 5 lbs more ,] know that Ocasio was not a southpaw it was glaringly obvious that you had made that up yourself ! lol Read the next sentence carefully,then perhaps I won't have to correct you again.

This thread is about Jim Jeffries,NOT George Chuvalo.

Do seek that professional help!

You are a hating type of guy, You start a thread on a guy, only to try to bash him?

I showed you where to find Chavalo's s reach, twice. With valid sources. I was not wrong on Louis, was I? No was not. I made one rare mistakes on Ocasio. I called him tricky and a southpaw. Since then I have retracted the southpaw part. Big deal. Lewis did not face any southpaws by the way. Neither did Louis I think.

Yes-- This thread is about Jeffries a good champion that beat his #1, #2, and #3 men in a little over a years time. I wish the modern guys who attempt of do that or at least fight the #2 guy ... Once.

A lot bothers you don't lie to us again. We could get pig sick.

[Willie Pep 229]

Choynski thought Jeffries had a mental breakdown before the fight, Jeffries spent the night before the fight looking out of the window unable to sleep,

Jeffries said," his head felt ***** ,"in the early rounds and his judgement of distance was off but he thought he ,"would find himself once he got going,"but he never did,the disorientation may have been the result of mental pressure on him .

It's a good thread, let's hope we can keep it on track!

I don't see mental breakdown and the purported failed abilities, as necessarily being connected.

I think Jeffries' disoriention, with time and distance, sounds more like what the aging Joe Louis said more succinctly "I could see the openings, but couldn't pull the trigger."

The old time fighters, could fight themseleves into shape during a fight. A relaxed rhythm can replace some of the missing conditioning, so the saying goes.

Maybe!

But it won't bring back your timing, that's gone for good. Both Louis and Jeffries found that out the hard way.

[Ivich]

I don't see mental breakdown and the purported failed abilities, as necessarily being connected.

I think Jeffries' disoriention, with time and distance, sounds more like what the aging Joe Louis said more subsequently, "I could see the openings, but couldn't pull the trigger."

The old time fighters, could fight themseleves into shape during a fight. A relaxed rhythm can replace some of the missing conditioning, so the saying goes.

Maybe!

But it won't bring back your timing, that's gone for good. Both Louis and Jeffries found that out the hard way.

After his disastrous comeback against Charles ,Louis got some semblance of it back ,with regular bouts but the ability to deliver his deadly right hand was gone for good.

[QueensburyRules]

he was at his worse, had no business being in the ring vs Johnson. With that being said, I have not seen anything on film that tells me much of anything about him. I suspect he was dependent on said attributes... You have to be mindful that footwork at Jeffries time was different, very different.

- - The bizness was both JJ/Jeffries split near quartermil purse.

I’d fight either tomorrow for that kinda dough, both for double…

[Ivich]

- - The bizness was both JJ/Jeffries split near quartermil purse.

I’d fight either tomorrow for that kinda dough, both for double…

But who would pay to watch you?

[QueensburyRules]

But who would pay to watch you?

- - Same ones who paid to watch the ghost of 300lb six years retired Jeff to go rounds vs JJ.

You pay waiters to watch you inhale French slugs.

[Slugfester]

London is Billy's go to racist, but London had a strong supporting cast. I have read that Corbett was pretty racist himself, though once upon a time he had fought Jackson. Don't have a source, just a vague memory. Would be easy to find. Someone on here probably already knows about it anyway.