The most impressive, evolved modern heavyweight might be James Jeffries!

[Ivich]

Box Rec, Callis and Wiki are all wrong? No dude, you are wrong and spreading lies. They all say Jeffries reach was 76.5"

https://coxscorner.tripod.com/jeffries.html

I never derailed and of Bill threads. Don''t speak for him or lie. You however force the mod's to close yours you own. Several times.

https://coxscorner.tripod.com/jeffries.html

I can show you Jeffries chest measurements too, you ignoramus.

You carry on on your own,The man has posted a thread on Jeffries but, as per usual you want to turn it into a flame war.
You are mentally ill, get some help and stop turning every thread into an opportunity to broadcast your agendas.

[Slugfester]

As opposed to your unimpeachable source materials? Ivich makes an effort, as I try to do, to give a source for, a trace if you will, for a contention, so someone can follow the lead if they so desire.

Here is the result of that: When Ivich stated those measures? I thought they looked a little light in the height as well, but I KNEW, if I had to bet my last dollar, that Ivich did not make them up... I counted on the fact that he had a source for the measurement. And sure enough...

You can always argue against a source, but at least give a valid reason. Ivich, when pressed, used a doctor as a source... As opposed to taking exxagerated claims at face value.

I always try to give a source because I often make mistakes, and someone can then see where the mistake was made, and I can learn something, this is the way knowledge should work... in any field. We may, with Quantum computer machines actually be able to reconstruct enough data, IF the data is good, to reconstruct some great fights and even create hypothetical match ups that can be given a prediction based on real data, with advances in AI. Then you can prove that Valuev would be the best heavyweight ever!!!

I expect AI will become an integral part of most or all sports. We can only hope this will apply to judging boxing matches. Judging has been poor and inconsistent for all of boxing's history. Personally, I would rather have judges who not only see punches better but can also read aspects of the fighters' physiology and brain waves, plus judge the force of blows more accurately and who can read pain directly through its remote connections to the fighters.

[billeau2]

I expect AI will become an integral part of most or all sports. We can only hope this will apply to judging boxing matches. Judging has been poor and inconsistent for all of boxing's history. Personally, I would rather have judges who not only see punches better but can also read aspects of the fighters' physiology and brain waves, plus judge the force of blows more accurately and who can read pain directly through its remote connections to the fighters.

Def we are thinking across similar lines! Absolutely.

[billeau2]

Box Rec, Callis and Wiki are all wrong? No dude, you are wrong and spreading lies. They all say Jeffries reach was 76.5"

https://coxscorner.tripod.com/jeffries.html

I never derailed and of Bill threads. Don''t speak for him or lie. You however force the mod's to close yours you own. Several times.

https://coxscorner.tripod.com/jeffries.html

I can show you Jeffries chest measurements too, you ignoramus.

Is that including *******? was the room cold?

[Slugfester]

Some fighter stats are easily bulked up. The principle reason must be they are not measured every time. Do they actually measure heights at weigh-ins? How about calf size and reach, chest expansion and fist girth? I actually don't know, but my guess is not.

[Mooshashi]

While no doubt Jeffries was a good athlete, his best attribute as a boxer was the ability to take frightful punishment.
Otherwise on film he looks like George Chuvalo with worse footwork. Granted that he was out of shape vs Johnson, but his style of fighting was the same as 5 years earlier.....bull forward with little to no art, take punches until his opponent tired. But Johnson wasn't going along with the script.

Certainly in his day he was considered unbeatable, but there was only 25 years or so of "modern " boxers to compare him to. Corbett...slapped him around mercilessly in their first fight and Fitzsimmons mauled him terribly.

As you can see, I don't rate him very highly. I have Adam Pollacks book and I admire Adam.

[kara]

Some fighter stats are easily bulked up. The principle reason must be they are not measured every time. Do they actually measure heights at weigh-ins? How about calf size and reach, chest expansion and fist girth? I actually don't know, but my guess is not.

I remember that guy Gary Shaw brought to Showtime years back. He was 17-0 with 17 KOs (I think) and got ko;d by a non-puncher.

[Ivich]

Is that including *******? was the room cold?

I took Jeffries stats from the Tale of the Tape v Johnson,published at the time of their fight, why that should annoy anyone or justify me being accused of deliberately trying to make him smaller is beyond me? I can't see that its worth getting upset about.?

[Ivich]

While no doubt Jeffries was a good athlete, his best attribute as a boxer was the ability to take frightful punishment.
Otherwise on film he looks like George Chuvalo with worse footwork. Granted that he was out of shape vs Johnson, but his style of fighting was the same as 5 years earlier.....bull forward with little to no art, take punches until his opponent tired. But Johnson wasn't going along with the script.

Certainly in his day he was considered unbeatable, but there was only 25 years or so of "modern " boxers to compare him to. Corbett...slapped him around mercilessly in their first fight and Fitzsimmons mauled him terribly.

As you can see, I don't rate him very highly. I have Adam Pollacks book and I admire Adam.

It's always puzzled me how Jeffries fans can rave about his durability, which I am convinced was justified,yet also aver how clever he was at avoiding punches,if the latter were true,how would we know about the former?
The fight report of the second Fitz vJeff fight described Fitz as hitting Jeffries when and where he wanted , breaking his nose and ripping deep gashes above and below both his eyes,
Fitz was then coming out of a two years retirement, and was 39 years old.'
It was stated Jeffries only won because he was so much bigger , 12 years the younger man, and Fitz's already damaged hands went on him from constantly pounding the big guys face with shots
There is no doubt Jeffries was extremely strong and durable,imo.but for the most part he was testing his strength against smaller , older men ,and these were the same men hitting him, not big heavyweights by any description .
The average weight of the men Jeffries defeated in title fights is186lbs,the average weight advantage he enjoyed over them is 31.37 lbs
Ruhlin, the biggest class man of any size he fought and beat,at just under 200lbs for their second fight ,had a panic attack and failed to do himself justice being retired between rounds.
Fitz 37 years old had previously absolutely thrashed Ruhlin,so badly a Doctor had to stay with him in MSG the night after the fight as Gus was too ill to be moved and was constantly falling in and out of consciousness .
Jeffries after a year of training was at a good weight for Johnson at 227lbs and sported a six pack on his stomach,doubtless his lack of ring action had adversely affected his timing and stamina,but his vaunted strength was never on display against Johnson ,not even in the early rounds when he would have been expected to be at his best.Johnson handled him with ease, moving him where he wanted and talking to Corbett ,Jeff's second as he did so.
Johnson said ,"I really felt just one of his punches a left to the body in the 4th, which was about the only round he did well in",after 6 rounds Corbett told Jeff's brother," he's getting beat what shall we do?" they discussed having him foul out or pulling him out.
Jeffries must be commended for taking a thorough hiding in that fight but never quitting or looking to stall,rather a contrast to Dubois performance against Usyk last Saturday,imo.
Gene Tunney said it when he commented ," Jeffries reputation was built on smaller, older men,"

As to Jeffries sprint times,Callis quotes Jeffries as running the 100yds dash in,"a little over 10 seconds".


"The 100-yard dash is a track and field sprint event of 100 yards (91.44 metres). It was part of the Commonwealth Games until 1970, and was included in the triathlon of the Olympics in 1904. It is not generally used in international events, replaced by the 100-metre sprint (109.36 yards). However, it is still occasionally run in the United States in certain competitions; in the NCAA championships it was last run in 1975.^[1][2] Walter Halben Butler (1852–1931) is credited with being the first to run the race in 10 seconds."

I'm not swallowing Callis' claim.
Chuvalo and Jeffries were similar in build,same size necks, Chuvalo bigger in the chest ,Jeffries bigger in the biceps and legs ,same size forearms.

[Dr. Z]

Is that including *******? was the room cold?

It might have been.