The most impressive, evolved modern heavyweight might be James Jeffries!

[Dr. Z]

It's always puzzled me how Jeffries fans can rave about his durability, which I am convinced was justified,yet also aver how clever he was at avoiding punches,if the latter were true,how would we know about the former?
The fight report of the second Fitz vJeff fight described Fitz as hitting Jeffries when and where he wanted , breaking his nose and ripping deep gashes above and below both his eyes,
Fitz was then coming out of a two years retirement, and was 39 years old.'
It was stated Jeffries only won because he was so much bigger , 12 years the younger man, and Fitz's already damaged hands went on him from constantly pounding the big guys face with shots
There is no doubt Jeffries was extremely strong and durable,imo.but for the most part he was testing his strength against smaller , older men ,and these were the same men hitting him, not big heavyweights by any description .
The average weight of the men Jeffries defeated in title fights is186lbs,the average weight advantage he enjoyed over them is 31.37 lbs
Ruhlin, the biggest class man of any size he fought and beat,at just under 200lbs for their second fight ,had a panic attack and failed to do himself justice being retired between rounds.
Fitz 37 years old had previously absolutely thrashed Ruhlin,so badly a Doctor had to stay with him in MSG the night after the fight as Gus was too ill to be moved and was constantly falling in and out of consciousness .
Jeffries after a year of training was at a good weight for Johnson at 227lbs and sported a six pack on his stomach,doubtless his lack of ring action had adversely affected his timing and stamina,but his vaunted strength was never on display against Johnson ,not even in the early rounds when he would have been expected to be at his best.Johnson handled him with ease, moving him where he wanted and talking to Corbett ,Jeff's second as he did so.
Johnson said ,"I really felt just one of his punches a left to the body in the 4th, which was about the only round he did well in",after 6 rounds Corbett told Jeff's brother," he's getting beat what shall we do?" they discussed having him foul out or pulling him out.
Jeffries must be commended for taking a thorough hiding in that fight but never quitting or looking to stall,rather a contrast to Dubois performance against Usyk last Saturday,imo.
Gene Tunney said it when he commented ," Jeffries reputation was built on smaller, older men,"

As to Jeffries sprint times,Callis quotes Jeffries as running the 100yds dash in,"a little over 10 seconds".


"The 100-yard dash is a track and field sprint event of 100 yards (91.44 metres). It was part of the Commonwealth Games until 1970, and was included in the triathlon of the Olympics in 1904. It is not generally used in international events, replaced by the 100-metre sprint (109.36 yards). However, it is still occasionally run in the United States in certain competitions; in the NCAA championships it was last run in 1975.^[1][2] Walter Halben Butler (1852–1931) is credited with being the first to run the race in 10 seconds."

I'm not swallowing Callis' claim.
Chuvalo and Jeffries were similar in build,same size necks, Chuvalo bigger in the chest ,Jeffries bigger in the biceps and legs ,same size forearms.

Fitz was 36 for Jeffries, not 37 as you have claimed before. He fought puncher's in Sharkey, Fitzsimmons, and Choynski in fights with light 6 oz or gloves increasing the hitting power as compared with 12 ounces gloves that have more padding, and without a mouth guard / gum shield. He was only floored in one match where he was old, had not fought in 6 years, and was tired after 14 rounds in the desert heat of July. Jeffries had one of the best proven chins in heavyweight history. If your going to attempt a character assigning of a fighter, at least you can do it right, without double standards where the examples only appeals to one fighter, but never to your heroes, fake #'s and such.

Please list Chuavalo's full tale of tape. Also Chuavalo was slower and less of an athlete. You forgot to mention the height and reach for George Why? Don't answer that question by the way, we know


https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/9022

[Ivich]

Fitz was 36 for Jeffries, not 37 as you have claimed before. He fought puncher's in Sharkey, Fitzsimmons, and Choynski in fights with light 6 oz or gloves increasing the hitting power as compared with 12 ounces gloves that have more padding, and without a mouth guard / gum shield. He was only floored in one match where he was old, had not fought in 6 years, and was tired after 14 rounds in the desert heat of July. Jeffries had one of the best proven chins in heavyweight history. If your going to attempt a character assigning of a fighter, at least you can do it right, without double standards where the examples only appeals to one fighter, but never to your heroes, fake #'s and such.

Please list Chuavalo's full tale of tape. Also Chuavalo was slower and less of an athlete. You forgot to mention the height and reach for George Why? Don't answer that question by the way, we know


https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/9022

Aaaah ,my personal stalker has arrived!


Here is my quote.

"Fitz 37 years old had previously absolutely thrashed Ruhlin,so badly a Doctor had to stay with him in MSG the night after the fight as Gus was too ill to be moved and was constantly falling in and out of consciousness ."
Have you got that? All understood?

Fitz was born on the 26th of May 1863.


He fought Ruhlin on the 10th of August 1900.
Which makes him 37 years 2 months and 15 days old when they fought!

I know your reading comprehension is poor,so, If you are having trouble understanding this , ask some one to help you with it.

George Chuvalo is six feet tall with a 76inch reach.I'm using the tale of the tape from the first Ali fight here.
I never mentioned Chuvalo's ability or compared his skill set to Jeffries ,I just replied to another poster who mentioned him and said Jeffries was like him with worse foot work.

Fitz was
167lbs for the first Jeffries fight.Weight advantage to Jeffries of 39lbs
172 lbs for the second.Weight advantage to Jeffries of 47lbs
Sharkey was estimated to be around 177lbs/180 lbs for the first Jeffries fight , but lets be generous and call it183lbs, the same as he was for the second fight.Weight advantage to Jeffries of 27lbs/ In his Jeffries book Pollack estimates Sharkey was probably mid 180;s for the first fight.
Choynski was 167lbs .Weight advantage to Jeffries of 52lbs

Pointing out verifed facts in not character assassination,or as you call it ,"character assignment".lpl
All I have posted is factual and easily corroborated.
Well , by anyone who can read.

[Dr. Z]

Aaaah ,my personal stalker has arrived!


Here is my quote.

"Fitz 37 years old had previously absolutely thrashed Ruhlin,so badly a Doctor had to stay with him in MSG the night after the fight as Gus was too ill to be moved and was constantly falling in and out of consciousness ."
Have you got that? All understood?

Fitz was born on the 26th of May 1863.


He fought Ruhlin on the 10th of August 1900.
Which makes him 37 years 2 months and 15 days old when they fought!

I know your reading comprehension is poor,so, If you are having trouble understanding this , ask some one to help you with it.

George Chuvalo is six feet tall with a 76inch reach.I'm using the tale of the tape from the first Ali fight here.
I never mentioned Chuvalo's ability or compared his skill set to Jeffries ,I just replied to another poster who mentioned him and said Jeffries was like him with worse foot work.

Fitz was
167lbs for the first Jeffries fight.
172 lbs for the second.
Sharkey was estimated to be around 177lbs/180 lbs for the first Jeffries fight , but lets be generous and call it183lbs, the same as he was for the second fight.
Choynski was 167lbs ,giving Jeffries 52lbs in weight.
All I have posted is factual and easily corroborated.
Well ,by anyone who can read.

No. Chuvalo's reach was not that. In the past you claimed Fitz was 37 for Jeffries. Read carefully. Yes, you have done so several times in the past. Chavalo's footwork was nothing like Jeffries.

Jeffries was not KO'd or beaten by sub 200 pound men like Choynski. But Jack Johnson was...at least three times. Dempsey, and Louis lost to small men under 200 pounds as well...several times. As I said your double standards are unreal. What applies to one, applies to all.

Here is Chuvalo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Chuvalo

and here

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/119

Historian's review these sites.

Fitz was 36 for Jeffries, not 37 as you have claimed before. He fought puncher's in Sharkey, Fitzsimmons, and Choynski in fights with light 6 oz or gloves increasing the hitting power as compared with 12 ounces gloves that have more padding, and without a mouth guard / gum shield. He was only floored in one match where he was old, had not fought in 6 years, and was tired after 14 rounds in the desert heat of July. Jeffries had one of the best proven chins in heavyweight history. If your going to attempt a character assigning of a fighter, at least you can do it right, without double standards where the examples only appeals to one fighter, but never to your heroes, fake #'s and such.

Please list Chuavalo's full tale of tape. Also Chuavalo was slower and less of an athlete. You forgot to mention the height and reach for George Why? Don't answer that question by the way, we know

And just in case you forgot, here is Jeffries height, weight, and reach.


https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/9022

[Willie Pep 229]

I took Jeffries stats from the Tale of the Tape v Johnson,published at the time of their fight, why that should annoy anyone or justify me being accused of deliberately trying to make him smaller is beyond me? I can't see that its worth getting upset about.?

There is a throw away line in The Great White Hope, during the weigh-in.

Johnson smiles and suggests that the weigh-in is fixed to make Jeffries look larger.

What the playwright was suggesting I am not sure. But it is not too hard to believe that all fighters, for many reasons, distorted their tape numbers.

Prize fighting has always been part mind game.

Hell, gladiators probably spooked opponents with calls to exotic foreign gods, by token and ceremony, for invincibility. Which probably worked to some extent. And God, imagine the size claims made about gladiators fighting in the empire's boondocks, as the anticipation of their first fight in Rome builds.

[Ivich]

No. Chuvalo's reach was not that. In the past you claimed Fitz was 37 for Jeffries. Read carefully. Yes, you have done so several times in the past. Chavalo's footwork was nothing like Jeffries.

Jeffries was not KO'd or beaten by sub 200 pound men like Choynski. But Jack Johnson was...at least three times. Dempsey, and Louis lost to small men under 200 pounds as well...several times. As I said your double standards are unreal. What applies to one, applies to all.

Here is Chuvalo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Chuvalo

and here

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/119

Historian's review these sites.



And just in case you forgot, here is Jeffries height, weight, and reach.


https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/9022

Chuvalo's reach is given as 76 inches .
I have given no opinion on Chuvalo's footwork compared to Jeffries , so why do you keep mentioning it ?

I stated in this thread that Fitz was 37 when he fought Ruhlin
IS THAT RIGHT OR WRONG? .
I'll take an acclaimed authors exhaustive research of a fighter for a much praised biography over anonymous sources on Box rec thanks .

This thread is about James Jackson Jeffries .
So please do not insinuate Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, or Jack Dempsey into this thread, however much you are dying to do so!
You have spent the best part of a month trashing their records! Make your own threads if you want to dump on them some more,we really are not interested!
Just give it a rest !

[Dr. Z]

Chuvalo's reach is given as 76 inches .
I have given no opinion on Chuvalo's footwork compared to Jeffries , so why do you keep mentioning it ?

I stated in this thread that Fitz was 37 when he fought Ruhlin
IS THAT RIGHT OR WRONG? .
I'll take an acclaimed authors exhaustive research of a fighter for a much praised biography over anonymous sources on Box rec thanks .

This thread is about James Jackson Jeffries .
So please do not insinuate Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, or Jack Dempsey into this thread, however much you are dying to do so!
You have spent the best part of a month trashing their records! Make your own threads if you want to dump on them some more,we really are not interested!
Just give it a rest !

You can believe Chuvalo's reach was 76", try 71" pal. Or 70" I have listed good sources for the board. You lack them. You want to desperately lump Chuvalo and compare his tale of the tape to Jeffries which I pointed out in many cases is smaller and shorter. That author you mention he lists many sources, how convenient of you to pick the least. He'd tell you that as well!


I have nothing against Dempey or Louis. But you're full of double standards and you are easy pickings to expose them. Yes this thread is about Jeffries, a fighter you question sources on, and question while not using the same question towards Johnson, Dempsey , or Louis. Does it bother you that I know subject material and point out the facts, as well as truthfully state them?

If so you sad old man.

Chuvalo's reach was not that. In the past you claimed Fitz was 37 for Jeffries. Read carefully. Yes, you have done so several times in the past. Chavalo's footwork was nothing like Jeffries.

Jeffries was not KO'd or beaten by sub 200 pound men like Choynski. But Jack Johnson was...at least three times. Dempsey, and Louis lost to small men under 200 pounds as well...several times. As I said your double standards are unreal. What applies to one, applies to all.

Here is Chuvalo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Chuvalo

and here

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/119

Historian's review these sites.



And just in case you forgot, here is Jeffries height, weight, and reach.


https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/9022

- Dr. Z

[Ivich]

You can believe Chuvalo's reach was 76", try 71" pal. Or 70" I have listed good sources for the board. You lack them. You want to desperately lump Chuvalo and compare his tale of the tape to Jeffries which I pointed out in many cases is smaller and shorter. That author you mention he lists many sources, how convenient of you to pick the least. He'd tell you that as well!


I have nothing against Dempey or Louis. But you're full of double standards and you are easy pickings to expose them. Yes this thread is about Jeffries, a fighter you question sources on, and question while not using the same question towards Johnson, Dempsey , or Louis. Does it bother you that I know subject material and point out the facts, as well as truthfully state them?

If so you sad old man.

Ever read a negative review of any of Pollack's books? Im not interested in Chuvalo I didnt bring his name into this thread as I've already pointed out!
The only thing that bothers me about you is you are still breathing. You have spent a good week running down Dempsey,how he ducked Kid Norfolk ! lol ' Before that, the same time running down Louis, ducking all black fighters, being mob controlled and having his own judges and referee, remember how you got crucified for that on Classic !

Between them you started on Lennox Lewis how ,after facing Ossie Ocasio whom you said was a southpaw.Lewis made a statement that he would never fight another ,since the sensible people amongst us are well aware that Ocasio, [whom you also said was lighter than Lewis though he weighed 5 lbs more ,] know that Ocasio was not a southpaw it was glaringly obvious that you had made that up yourself ! lol Read the next sentence carefully,then perhaps I won't have to correct you again.

This thread is about Jim Jeffries,NOT George Chuvalo.

Do seek that professional help!

[billeau2]

Some fighter stats are easily bulked up. The principle reason must be they are not measured every time. Do they actually measure heights at weigh-ins? How about calf size and reach, chest expansion and fist girth? I actually don't know, but my guess is not.

They used to... I do not know when they stopped.

[billeau2]

While no doubt Jeffries was a good athlete, his best attribute as a boxer was the ability to take frightful punishment.
Otherwise on film he looks like George Chuvalo with worse footwork. Granted that he was out of shape vs Johnson, but his style of fighting was the same as 5 years earlier.....bull forward with little to no art, take punches until his opponent tired. But Johnson wasn't going along with the script.

Certainly in his day he was considered unbeatable, but there was only 25 years or so of "modern " boxers to compare him to. Corbett...slapped him around mercilessly in their first fight and Fitzsimmons mauled him terribly.

As you can see, I don't rate him very highly. I have Adam Pollacks book and I admire Adam.

he was at his worse, had no business being in the ring vs Johnson. With that being said, I have not seen anything on film that tells me much of anything about him. I suspect he was dependent on said attributes... You have to be mindful that footwork at Jeffries time was different, very different.

[billeau2]

I took Jeffries stats from the Tale of the Tape v Johnson,published at the time of their fight, why that should annoy anyone or justify me being accused of deliberately trying to make him smaller is beyond me? I can't see that its worth getting upset about.?

Yes... silly indeed. lol.