If Wills Had Fought And Beaten Dempsey In1922?

[Ivich]

If Harry had gotten a shot at Jack in1922 and had beaten him,which is a possibility.
Who would he have defended against?
Would the Establishment have placed White challengers in front of him to restore the status quo?
Or would Harry have defended against old foe Langford who was safely on the way down ?
Would he have taken on the rising young tigers like Tunney,and Godfrey?

[Willow The Wisp]

Good Alt Universe question.
I beleive the press, the public and the money would surely place Dempsey back in the opposite corner immediately.
But for the sake of it, Heaven forbid Dempsey was through in 22'.....

Wills would have no shortage of good challengers, many of them GWHs, for whom the battle cry would be renewed, and some decent Blacks as well, stateside and Caribbean/Latin America, and a burgeoning industry all over Europe, should he wish to travel. Which might be a good idea.

I think "they'd" put him right to work, and he'd be very eager to earn, defending often.
So, maybe.... the ensuing few years would shape up something like this for the Panther:

1922
Bill Tate, Denver......................................W 10
Sam Langford, Milwaukee.....................W 10
Jack Dempsey, New York.......................W 15
(Won World Heavyweight title)
Tom Gibbons, Chicago............................W 20
Luis Firpo, New York................................W 15

1923
Tut Jackson, Brooklyn.............................KO. 3
Erminio Spalla, Rome, Italy......................KO. 4
Jim Coffey, Dublin, Ireland.......................KO. 3
Marcel Nilles, Paris, France......................KO. 2
Phill Scott, London, England....................KO 5
Piet van der Veer, Amsterdam, Holland..KO. 5
Herman van 't Hof, Rotterdam, Holland..KO. 4

1924
Hans Breitenstraeter, Munich, Germany..KO. 4
Feodor Nikolaeff, St. Petersburg, Russia.KO 2
Joe Beckett, London, England.................KO 11
Jack Renault, Paris, France......................W 15
Bombardier Billy Wells, London, England. KO. 7
Paul Samson Koerner, Brussels, Belgium.KO 8

1925
Rudi Wagener, Dortmund, Germany..........KO 10
Harry Persson, Stockholm, Sweden..........KO 6
George Godfrey, New Orleans....................W 15
Bob Lawson, Memphis...............................KO 5

1926
Charley Weinert, Newark............................KO 2
Paulino Uzcudun, San Francisco...............W 15
Gene Tunney, New York..............................L 12
(Lost World Heavyweight title)

[Willie Pep 229]

I believe you have to bring politics into this, and not just race but other factors as well. Wills had strong ties to New York, and the NYSAC would have had much to do with what happened next.

Here's one I would like to pull out if my ass.

Joe Jeannette sees an opportunity and comes out of retirement.

Jeannette was quite popular with the New York crowd as was Wills.

Wills actually walked around New York in the early 1920s with many a (white) man calling him the uncrowded champion; Wills use to star as a celebrity refree for the Milk Fund cards to help build the crowd. Wills and Jeannette had big White followings in New York.

I believe a Jeannette (if he realistically could have gotten ready) Wills fight could have happened in New York in 1922 (but not anywhere else.)

Of course the problem with Wills is the classic issue we debate about Jack Johnson, the great fights were less important than the 'white' fights. There was too much money for Wills to give up to fight other Black fighters.

Regarding a Dempsey rematch. I think that is depended on how Dempsey loses.

After his dismal performance against Tunney in 1926 Rickard tried to squeeze two elimination fights out of Dempsey before he would give him a second try with Tunney.

Dempsey said no and they compromised on one fight, Sharkey.

DIGRESSION: Wills was so popular in New York, and with Dempsey just having lost the title to Tunney, Rickard announced that Dempsey and Wills would meet next summer in the (almost still new and exciting) Yankee Stadium.

Of course Wills came up short and Sharkey got the fight instead. But Rickard always wanted a Dempsey-Wills fight but was chilled by the whole black champion problem.

I'M BACK: I'm not 100% sold on Dempsey getting an immediate rematch. I think he would have had to fight his way back and I believe NYSAC and its friends would have protected Wills enough to want to find multiple paydays before risking Dempsey again. (Assuming Dempsey was a risk.)

But as I said earlier, I think it goes back to how Dempsey loses. If it's by decision, I think 'white' anger would have forced an immediate rematch.

[EDIT] I just want say directly because I didn't. Wills could have fought anyone in New York and have made money.

[Willie Pep 229]

I would also like to add, had Harry Wills won the title in '22 he would have done for the African-American community what Louis did ten years later. Been a champion everyone could embrace.

Instead of setting back the black man's cause like Johnson did, he would have moved integation forward.

P.S. Strange piece of trivia: When Rickard got pass the Sims Law via bribes and a friendly judge, and showed the Dempsey-Carpentier fight in a Chicago theater, audiences already expected a double feature and all Rickard had was 3 1/2 rounds.

So since he owned the rights to the Johnson-Jeffries fight he threw that on as the first feature.

Here it was 11 years since all the violence in 1910 and one reporter (and it seems only one noticed) noticed that not only was there no controversy about the showing of the fight, but that most of the audience talked through the presentation, anticipating the Dempsey fight.

1910 violence. 1921 unnoticed.

[Ivich]

I would also like to add, had Harry Wills won the title in '22 he would have done for the African-American community what Louis did ten years later. Been a champion everyone could embrace.

Instead of setting back the black man's cause like Johnson did, he would have moved integation forward.

P.S. Strange piece of trivia: When Rickard got pass the Sims Law via bribes and a friendly judge, and showed the Dempsey-Carpentier fight in a Chicago theater, audiences already expected a double feature and all Rickard had was 3 1/2 rounds.

So since he owned the rights to the Johnson-Jeffries fight he threw that on as the first feature.

Here it was 11 years since all the violence in 1910 and one reporter (and it seems only one noticed) noticed that not only was there no controversy about the showing of the fight, but that most of the audience talked through the presentation, anticipating the Dempsey fight.

1910 violence. 1921 unnoticed.

Great post ,always nice to learn something new.

[travestyny]

Instead of setting back the black man's cause like Johnson did, he would have moved integation forward.
.

Disagree with Johnson "setting back the black man's cause." If anything, he exposed the differential treatment that Black people received. He should have been able to live his life the way he wanted to just like any White person.

[Ivich]

Disagree with Johnson "setting back the black man's cause." If anything, he exposed the differential treatment that Black people received. He should have been able to live his life the way he wanted to just like any White person.

I agree, just because Johnson didn't walk in the gutter or kow tow to Whites like a good ******,doesnt mean he adversely set back Black's ,that would be White folks reaction to Jack refusing to play the Uncle Tom like Langford did,The blame rests with White society imo ,not Johnson.

[Willie Pep 229]

I say no Johnson and Wills gets a shot at the title.

[QueensburyRules]

- - What if I beat wills?

[Willie Pep 229]

- - What if I beat wills?

Lol - The only thing you could beat is Will's meat. And I don't want to envision that, so stop saying it.