If Wills Had Fought And Beaten Dempsey In1922?

[travestyny]

Dempsey had agreed to box Joe Bonds for free,at the last minute , Jeannette was substituted,Kearns sensibly refused to let Jack face him.,Dempsey donated $5,000 to the event and left. It was a pre-arranged set up.

This is true, but Dempsey's only reason given was that he didn't want to fight a Black man. He was quoted in an article that he himself was given credit for saying, "I'll fight ANY White man they put on, but I never agreed to fight a colored boy." It's also known that he said he would fight any TWO White fighters instead of a Black one.

In my opinion, that should be the first clear indication that he purposely ducked Harry Wills.

[Ivich]

Dempsey always said he lost the Johnson fight despite what the newspapers might have said either way.

He knew he was being thrown into fights he was not ready for and left New York and went back out west.

Only returning to New York after he met Kearns and gained some experience.

You bring nothing new to the conversation regarding Dempsey. Just common cliché and factoids beaten to death over the decades.

Do some research amd bring something new to the conversation instead of posting others opinions because they agree with you. We read them a hundred times already. You didn't prove anything with those posts except that someone agrees with you.

P.S. Re the decision: Dempsey was fighting a black man in Harlem.

Pollack goes into detail about the manouvering to substitute Bond with Jeannette ,Bonds feigning an injury
You saved me responding to this trolling.Many Thanks!

[Ivich]

This is true, but Dempsey's only reason given was that he didn't want to fight a Black man. He was quoted in an article that he himself was given credit for saying, "I'll fight ANY White man they put on, but I never agreed to fight a colored boy." It's also known that he said he would fight any TWO White fighters instead of a Black one.

In my opinion, that should be the first clear indication that he purposely ducked Harry Wills.

Dempsey did not give any reason he told Jim Coffroth," its up to my manager.".

[travestyny]

Dempsey always said he lost the Johnson fight despite what the newspapers might have said either way.

He knew he was being thrown into fights he was not ready for and left New York and went back out west.

Only returning to New York after he met Kearns and gained some experience.

P.S. Re the decision: Dempsey was fighting a black man in Harlem.

But Bill Tate at a similar age as Dempsey at the time (23 years old) and with similar experience to Dempsey (both had around 26 fights on their record) took the Langford fight and got a draw. He never ducked it claiming to be deathly afraid of Langford.


Not sure what your last part about Dempsey fighting a Black man in Harlem has to do with anything. Johnson broke 3 of Dempsey's ribs and Dempsey felt he lost. So him being a Black fighter in Harlem only got him a draw though more than one newspaper had him winning easily.


I really do think this was the fight that convinced Dempsey to steer clear of Black fighters. They offered him Langford, he said hell no. So they offered Johnson, a journeyman, instead, and Johnson goes on to really bust Dempsey up. After that, Dempsey would occasionally draw the color line and refuse to fight Black fighters for the rest of his career.

[travestyny]

Dempsey did not give any reason he told Jim Coffroth," its up to my manager.".

That's not what he said in the article with his name on it. He stated clearly that it was because Jeannette was Black.

Look at the article "They called me a bum," by Jack Dempsey as told to John B. Kennedy (September 1925).

[travestyny]

On November 12th, 1918, Dempsey said he would fight ANYONE the management of the show puts in front of him.

The fight was 4 days later on November 16th, so I seriously doubt he had preparation on his mind when he claimed he would fight anyone. If I remember correctly, he claims it was understood to mean any WHITE heavyweight.

[Ivich]

That's not what he said in the article with his name on it. He stated clearly that it was because Jeannette was Black.

Look at the article "They called me a bum," by Jack Dempsey as told to John B. Kennedy (September 1925).

In the article he says he will box ANYONE.You can put what interpretation you wish on that,but ,given your history concerning Dempsey its no surprise which way you jumped!

That's what 7 years after it happened ? Kearns said he did not want to establish a precedent of Dempsey fighting blacks.
Personally I think Dempsey did right, Jeannette was brought in as an ambush,Jack had nothing to gain by boxing a 40 years old Jeannette for nothing and Jeannette would undoubtedly have been on his mettle trying to show well,and perhaps parlay his showing into a big match. Thanks to Dr Z once again for altering the direction of my thread from, if Wills had won the title? Into an attack on Dempsey.
I'm making no more threads so those so inclined will have to be content with derailing what is already available by me. I'm also going to spend a bit more time on other, more rewarding forums.where agendas are parked at the gate.

[travestyny]

That's what 7 years after it happened ? Kearns said he did not want to establish a precedent of Dempsey fighting blacks.
Personally I think Dempsey did right, Jeannette was brought in as an ambush,Jack had nothing to gain by boxing a 40 years old Jeannette for nothing and Jeannette would undoubtedly have been on his mettle trying to show well,and perhaps parlay his showing into a big match. Thanks to Dr Z once again for altering the direction of my thread from, if Wills had won the title? Into an attack on Dempsey.
I'm making no more threads so those so inclined will have to be content with derailing what is available by me.

Right, it was years after it happened, but I'm sure he knows why he declined (by the way, in the article he states that he clearly remembers that night...and wishes he could forget it). I agree Kearns wanted no part of Dempsey fighting Wills, but I'm also convinced that Dempsey was right on board with that. He did go on record drawing the color-line twice, though he later claimed he never did so. Not sure how he makes that claim when newspapers reported on it widely.

Sorry your thread was derailed yet again. It's somewhat related to the topic, I suppose. We can see a pattern of Dempsey not wanting to fight Black fighters after the tussle with John Lester Johnson.


In my opinion, Dempsey brought it on himself during that event. When you say you will fight ANYONE chosen, then claim you will fight any TWO men, I mean those are both pretty bold statements. He's basically saying he would fight Hercules and Achilles on the same night...but not an old Joe Jeannette.

[QueensburyRules]

Right, it was years after it happened, but I'm sure he knows why he declined (by the way, in the article he states that he clearly remembers that night...and wishes he could forget it). I agree Kearns wanted no part of Dempsey fighting Wills, but I'm also convinced that Dempsey was right on board with that. He did go on record drawing the color-line twice, though he later claimed he never did so. Not sure how he makes that claim when newspapers reported on it widely.

Sorry your thread was derailed yet again. It's somewhat related to the topic, I suppose. We can see a pattern of Dempsey not wanting to fight Black fighters after the tussle with John Lester Johnson.


In my opinion, Dempsey brought it on himself during that event. When you say you will fight ANYONE chosen, then claim you will fight any TWO men, I mean those are both pretty bold statements. He's basically saying he would fight Hercules and Achilles on the same night...but not an old Joe Jeannette.

- - It was milk fund charity exhibition bs a hack journeyman who was paid to leave the building so Joe could be the sub.

Tex went ballistic and pulled Dempsey.

Sorta like you being a hack part time poseur.

[travestyny]

- - It was milk fund charity exhibition bs a hack journeyman who was paid to leave the building so Joe could be the sub.

Tex went ballistic and pulled Dempsey.

Sorta like you being a hack part time poseur.

Tex wasn't in the house.

We've already figured it out, Queenie. You always get shlt wrong. Please leave the serious conversation to other posters here. You'll just hurt yourself.