If Wills Had Fought And Beaten Dempsey In1922?

[Anthony342]

I disagree but I guess we will never know.

So are you a Trump supporter now lol?

[travestyny]

So are you a Trump supporter now lol?

I support him moving into the pen

[Anthony342]

I support him moving into the pen

Nice.

[Ivich]

Nice.

Me too!

[Dr. Z]

I would also like to add, had Harry Wills won the title in '22 he would have done for the African-American community what Louis did ten years later. Been a champion everyone could embrace.

Instead of setting back the black man's cause like Johnson did, he would have moved integation forward.

P.S. Strange piece of trivia: When Rickard got pass the Sims Law via bribes and a friendly judge, and showed the Dempsey-Carpentier fight in a Chicago theater, audiences already expected a double feature and all Rickard had was 3 1/2 rounds.

So since he owned the rights to the Johnson-Jeffries fight he threw that on as the first feature.

Here it was 11 years since all the violence in 1910 and one reporter (and it seems only one noticed) noticed that not only was there no controversy about the showing of the fight, but that most of the audience talked through the presentation, anticipating the Dempsey fight.

1910 violence. 1921 unnoticed.

Good post. With Dempsey he did not fight Greb or Wills. Nor did he fight Langford or Jeannette before them. He had chances to fight all four guys. There was some talk of a fight with Jack Johnson, which looks like a fake as there is only one non major newspaper covering it!! Dempsey could tell the press that his fight with Jonhson didn't happen, but never he answered this clearly! Many of Dempsey's fights have questionable endings too.

On Wills he met many good fighters in their primes both black and white and did not avoid the top talent as much when he was on top. He was better liked than Johnson. He was not a pimp, a wife better, nor did he have trouble with the law all around the world.

If he had fought and beaten Dempsey, I agree he would have done some great things for the African-American community. Heck a draw or a loss would have done some great things.

So what if they fought? I reckon Dempsey would win and I say this as a fan who picks the what if. I also do not dismiss the fouls, the judging, and other shenanigans if they fought as Dempsey had a way of coming out to top with such crap.

[Ivich]

Good post. With Dempsey he did not fight Greb or Wills. Nor did he fight Langford or Jeannette before them. He had chances to fight all four guys. There was some talk of a fight with Jack Johnson, which looks like a fake as there is only one non major newspaper covering it!! Dempsey could tell the press that his fight with Jonhson didn't happen, but never he answered this clearly! Many of Dempsey's fights have questionable endings too.

On Wills he met many good fighters in their primes both black and white and did not avoid the top talent as much when he was on top. He was better liked than Johnson. He was not a pimp, a wife better, nor did he have trouble with the law all around the world.

If he had fought and beaten Dempsey, I agree he would have done some great things for the African-American community. Heck a draw or a loss would have done some great things.

So what if they fought? I reckon Dempsey would win and I say this as a fan who picks the what if. I also do not dismiss the fouls, the judging, and other shenanigans if they fought as Dempsey had a way of coming out to top with such crap.

Jeannette retired the year Dempsey won the title, he was 40 years old
Which wins during Dempsey's title reign would have justified the, blind in one eye since 1917 , Langford getting a title shot?

[Dr. Z]

Jeannette retired the year Dempsey won the title, he was 40 years old
Which wins during Dempsey's title reign would have justified the, blind in one eye since 1917 , Langford getting a title shot?

Well Ivich, Dempsey avoided Sam Langford pre title and Joe Jeannette was ready go in the ring as sub for a Dempsey opponent who pulled out, and Dempsey balked. The fans wanted to see him fight. You can look both of the above up.

Here this will help:

Absolutely serious! He was scared ****tless of Langford, and everyone knew it!

During the first quarter of the twentieth century, the prospect of facing the five-foot-seven-inch dynamo, who weighed no more than 175 pounds at his peak, struck terror in the hearts of most of his contemporaries, including heavyweight champions Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey.

In June 1916, the 21-year-old Dempsey

an opportunity to face an aging Langford. Recalling the incident years later in his autobiography, Dempsey wrote, “The Hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, and I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”

Jack Johnson, on the other hand, did face Langford, once, in April 1906, when Langford was only a 20-year-old lightweight who gave up over 40 pounds to the 28-year- old heavyweight contender. Johnson won a convincing 15-round decision over the youngster, but discovered just how tough the smaller fighter was and what kind of dynamite he carried in his fists.

Two and a half years later, Johnson won the heavyweight championship by defeating Tommy Burns. Over the ensuing years, Langford and his manager, Joe Woodman, hounded Johnson in futile pursuit of an opportunity to fight for the title.

“Nobody will pay to see two black men fight for the title,” Johnson said However, when Johnson grew weary of Australian boxing promoter Hugh “Huge Deal”’ McIntosh’s efforts to arrange a match with Langford, he admitted that he had no wish to face Langford again. “I don’t want to fight that little smoke,” said Johnson. “He’s got a chance to win against anyone in the world. I’m the first black champion and I’m going to be the last.”

Years later, Johnson confided to New England Sports Museum trustee Kevin Aylwood, “Sam Langford was the “Toughest little son of a ***** that ever lived.”

Despite participating in over 300 professional bouts in a 24-year ring career (from 1902 to 1926), Langford never won a world title. He defeated reigning lightweight champion Joe Gans by decision in December 1903 but was not recognized as the new champion because he came into the fight two pounds over the lightweight limit. Nine months later Langford fought the world welterweight champion, Joe Walcott, to a 15-round draw in a contest that the majority of those in attendance felt he deserved.

Surprisingly, Langford would never receive another opportunity to fight for a world title. Although he faced middleweight champion Stanley Ketchel in a six-round fight in April 1910, this was a predetermined no-decision contest that was rumored to be a preview for a 45-round title bout on the West Coast later that year. Unfortunately, Ketchel was murdered before that event could be held.

Although Langford began competing as a lightweight and then as a welterweight, once he matured physically, it became more difficult for him to keep within those weight limits. He was also aware of the fact that there was more money in fighting big fellows and subsequently went after heavyweights. Over the years he met and defeated many men much larger than himself: men like “Battling” Jim Johnson, Sam McVey, Sandy Ferguson, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVey, “Big” Bill Tate, George Godfrey and Harry Wills. Some of these fighters towered over Langford, who often also gave up as much as 40 pounds in weight.

One opponent, “Fireman” Jim Flynn, said of Langford’s punching power: “I fought most of the heavyweights, including [Jack] Dempsey and [Jack] Johnson, but Sam could strength a guy colder than any of them. When Langford hit me it felt like someone slugged me with a baseball bat.”

In 1917, Langford completely lost the sight of one eye during a loss against Fred Fulton. Remarkably, he would continue fighting with one eye for another nine years, the last few with limited sight out of his one “good” eye. In 1923 he captured the Mexican heavyweight title in a contest at which he had to rely on his handlers to help guide him into the ring and to his corner. Langford’s assistants were so concerned about his eyesight that they wanted to call the fight off, but Langford refused: He needed the money.

Sam fought for another two years while his eyesight continued to fail, until in August 1925, in his last professional bout, he was forced to quit in the opening round of a fight when it became obvious that he couldn’t see his opponent at all. All this being said did Jack Johnson avoid Sam Langford? Absolutely! without a doubt.

And

Dempsey agreed to fight ANY heavyweight boxer that the manager of a charity event chose for him 4 days out of the event. Three days out, he found out his opponent would be Joe Bonds.

Bonds apparently gets sick the night of the fight, Joe Jeanette's opponent Kid Norfolk also is unable to go (don't know why), and so Dempsey is match with Jeanette for 4 (or 6) rounds in an exhibition at MSG.

Dempsey refuses to fight Jeanette, and says he will fight ANY TWO WHITE heavyweights instead. The crowd goes into an uproar and boos Dempsey, calling him a bum, coward, yellow dog, etc. They cheer Jeanette who is back and forth between sitting down and approaching Dempsey ordering him to fight.

Dempsey's manager steps in and says he will only allow Dempsey to fight Joe Bonds. The crowd is none too happy as Dempsey leaves the ring

'Dempsey, who today stands at the pinnacle as a result of victories over all-white heavyweights'

'For weeks, Jeannette has sought a match with the Utah wonder, but for some reason best known to himself and his manager Kearns, Dempsey has persistently refused to meet a negro, despite the fact that he has fought John Lester Johnson in this city a couple of years ago'

'When he agreed to box at the Garden Show, Dempsey stipulated that he be matched with a white boxer and at that time refused to meet Jeannette or any other negro.'

'That had started out as one of the greatest fistic carnivals ever staged in this city, had been marred by one of the worst examples of sportsmanship - or lack of it - ever witnessed in the annals of local boxing. '


'There is no alibi for anybody involved in this disgraceful episode. In the first place, Dempsey should have accepted the negro's challenge if he had an ounce of sporting blood in his make up. To be sure, he had everything to lose and nothing to gain, but last night was no occasion to seek refuge behind the color line. There is no excuse whatsoever for Dempsey.'

Now you see I provided the information you seek. No charge. And John Lester Johnson got the better of Dempsey in their match even though he is a journeyman.

[QueensburyRules]

So are you a Trump supporter now lol?

- - teensie believe in one drop rule. You could look it up…

[Ivich]

Dempsey had agreed to box Joe Bonds for free,at the last minute , Jeannette was substituted,Kearns sensibly refused to let Jack face him.,Dempsey donated $5,000 to the event and left. It was a pre-arranged set up.

[Willie Pep 229]

Well Ivich, Dempsey avoided Sam Langford pre title and Joe Jeannette was ready go in the ring as sub for a Dempsey opponent who pulled out, and Dempsey balked. The fans wanted to see him fight. You can look both of the above up.

Here this will help:



And







Now you see I provided the information you seek. No charge. And John Lester Johnson got the better of Dempsey in their match even though he is a journeyman.

Dempsey always said he lost the Johnson fight despite what the newspapers might have said either way.

He knew he was being thrown into fights he was not ready for and left New York and went back out west.

Only returning to New York after he met Kearns and gained some experience.

You bring nothing new to the conversation regarding Dempsey. Just common cliché and factoids beaten to death over the decades.

Do some research amd bring something new to the conversation instead of posting others opinions because they agree with you. We read them a hundred times already. You didn't prove anything with those posts except that someone agrees with you.

P.S. Re the decision: Dempsey was fighting a black man in Harlem.