If Dempsey Had Defended Against Wills,Godfrey & Norfolk?

[QueensburyRules]

Of the three I find Godfrey an interesting and potential "Dark Horse." I know I know if it offends anyone? "potential and suprising front runner. I don't know much about Kid Norfolk, but Godfrey did get props and had a lot of experience with quality fighters. I guess one question is what was Jack's Krypton? I don't think the extreme strength and crazy push out of the ring by the Pampano Bull tells us much: Size, strength... But what of a strong fighter, with experience, and some technical chops? Tunney was successful, but thats kind of like saying "Any Physicist that upholds the General Theory of Relativity is an Einstein."

What I like about Godfrey potentially is his toughness. The intangibles. During the color line Black Fighters had different experiences than White fighters: A Black fighter, much like the great karate fighters of the sixties, had to fight the same murderer's row of competitors. We also see this in MMA I suppose... is there some advantage to this experience that Godfrey could use against Dempsey? I think it is possible.

- - Godfrey KOed by blind Langford and busted up by Dempsey in training camp.

Maybe ought to go with a leaking overripe tomatoe, ya think?

[billeau2]

- - Godfrey KOed by blind Langford and busted up by Dempsey in training camp.

Maybe ought to go with a leaking overripe tomatoe, ya think?

Look at his entire career... He managed a draw with Langford as well, one out of three. And yes, his record was not steller, some fighters are better than their record indicates/indicated. Still had a decent record and fought competitively against the likes of fighters like Jack Sharkey and Risko...

Also, if you actually LOOKED at information about Godfrey you would know things like, the Primo Canera fight was probably a fix, as he was beating Canera when he was mysteriously DQ'ed. Dude won the Colored belt twice... meaning, in all probability that many lesser name opponents on his win list were quality opponents not given a chance to compete... How do we know this? He managed a draw with Langford... not an easy task... Also another "loss" to Sharkey was also a DQ.

Godfrey was a fall guy... But his actual skills were there and he was BIG. On a good night I think he may well have given Dempsey a tough time.

[GhostofDempsey]

Godfrey was a Dempsey sparring partner who often took the worst of it. Rumors that he knocked out Dempsey were unreported by local Montana newspapers and never substantiated. It was probably an attempt to generate more interest in the Gibbons fight he was training for in Montana and show some vulnerability. Most reports of their sparring sessions had Godfrey backing up, covering up and Dempsey in control. Dempsey often sparred each man 2 or 3 rounds at a time bringing in fresh partners every couple of rounds.

Kid Norfolk fought never fights to the distance with another Dempsey sparring partner, Jamaica Kid. Norfolk, along with Wills were offered generous paydays to spar Dempsey but declined. I suspect Jack would be too much for Norfolk.

Wills style was made for Dempsey. Several prominent boxing trainers agree Dempsey was too fast and Wills too slow of foot to hang with Dempsey. He was just a poor style match up and likely gets KO’d. Dempsey had picked Godfrey to beat Wills had they ever fought, but Wills was not interested. Godfrey went the distance with Sharkey and defeated Uzcudun who knocked out Wills.

[Ivich]

Godfrey was a Dempsey sparring partner who often took the worst of it. Rumors that he knocked out Dempsey were unreported by local Montana newspapers and never substantiated. It was probably an attempt to generate more interest in the Gibbons fight he was training for in Montana and show some vulnerability. Most reports of their sparring sessions had Godfrey backing up, covering up and Dempsey in control. Dempsey often sparred each man 2 or 3 rounds at a time bringing in fresh partners every couple of rounds.

Kid Norfolk fought never fights to the distance with another Dempsey sparring partner, Jamaica Kid. Norfolk, along with Wills were offered generous paydays to spar Dempsey but declined. I suspect Jack would be too much for Norfolk.

Wills style was made for Dempsey. Several prominent boxing trainers agree Dempsey was too fast and Wills too slow of foot to hang with Dempsey. He was just a poor style match up and likely gets KO’d. Dempsey had picked Godfrey to beat Wills had they ever fought, but Wills was not interested. Godfrey went the distance with Sharkey and defeated Uzcudun who knocked out Wills.

I'm a big Dempsey fan, but Dempsey and Kearns refused the offer to spar with Kid Norfolk ,not the other way around.
Why would Wills a top contender agree to spar with Dempsey.Dempsey was notoriously brutal on his sparring partners, why would Harry fight him for pea nuts?
Jamaica Kid sparred with Dempsey for several fights,including the 2nd Miske fight.and the Willard fight.
He also sparred with Fulton for the Dempsey fight.
There are 2 photos of Dempsey and The Jamaica Kid sparring on page397 of Pollacks Vo1 of Jack Dempsey
Wills was getting long in the tooth when a Godfrey fight was mooted,Harry had been the number one contender for some years,why would he risk taking on Godfrey.

Wills was past it when Sharkey and Uzcudun beat him,he was 2 years older than his given age.
I think Dempsey beats them all ,including Wills bigger slower men were usually his meat.

[QueensburyRules]

Look at his entire career... He managed a draw with Langford as well, one out of three. And yes, his record was not steller, some fighters are better than their record indicates/indicated. Still had a decent record and fought competitively against the likes of fighters like Jack Sharkey and Risko...

Also, if you actually LOOKED at information about Godfrey you would know things like, the Primo Canera fight was probably a fix, as he was beating Canera when he was mysteriously DQ'ed. Dude won the Colored belt twice... meaning, in all probability that many lesser name opponents on his win list were quality opponents not given a chance to compete... How do we know this? He managed a draw with Langford... not an easy task... Also another "loss" to Sharkey was also a DQ.

Godfrey was a fall guy... But his actual skills were there and he was BIG. On a good night I think he may well have given Dempsey a tough time.

- - Primo easily outboxing Godfrey, the reason he shifted the blatant low blows in spite of repeated ref warnings, hence a DQ of which his record is littered with.

Must of been born yesterday for the umpteenth time today.

[Slugfester]

Financially, it would have been a killing I believe. It would have stirred up attention and controversy like almost nothing else could. The public would bitch and moan hard, but would now need Jack to protect and uphold their honor. Kearns would make a killing and Dempsey would get just decent bucks. Kearns with his greed prevented us all from having more of Dempsey to watch, is how I have heard it..

[Ivich]

- - Primo easily outboxing Godfrey, the reason he shifted the blatant low blows in spite of repeated ref warnings, hence a DQ of which his record is littered with.

Must of been born yesterday for the umpteenth time today.

• "George Godfrey, giant negro heavyweight of Leiperville, after hammering Primo Carnera, mammoth Venetian, through four rounds of a scheduled 10 round battle which attracted 35,000 fans and about $160,000 in gate receipts, was disqualified on a foul in the 5th round amid scenes of wild disorder." New York Times

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm a big Dempsey fan, but Dempsey and Kearns refused the offer to spar with Kid Norfolk ,not the other way around.
Why would Wills a top contender agree to spar with Dempsey.Dempsey was notoriously brutal on his sparring partners, why would Harry fight him for pea nuts?
Jamaica Kid sparred with Dempsey for several fights,including the 2nd Miske fight.and the Willard fight.
He also sparred with Fulton for the Dempsey fight.
There are 2 photos of Dempsey and The Jamaica Kid sparring on page397 of Pollacks Vo1 of Jack Dempsey
Wills was getting long in the tooth when a Godfrey fight was mooted,Harry had been the number one contender for some years,why would he risk taking on Godfrey.

Wills was past it when Sharkey and Uzcudun beat him,he was 2 years older than his given age.
I think Dempsey beats them all ,including Wills bigger slower men were usually his meat.

Pollocks Vol 2 says Norfolk was offered a sparring job by Kearns (page 281). Dempsey would have no reason to avoid him. Dempsey sparred Battling Ghee who entered camp very confident that Dempsey wouldn’t lay a glove on him…he got thrashed in two rounds. Afterwards he said Dempsey could whip a room full of Norfolks and Ghees. Ghee had fought Norfolk to the distance before. Wills had an opportunity to show up Dempsey in a sparring camp. There would have been no better press than that. For all of his talk, lawsuits and slandering of Dempsey’s name I think deep down he had his doubts about whether he could beat him. Wills was inactive for over a year between Sep ‘22 and Oct ‘23, in that time he turned down a fight with Godfrey. Godfrey had a long winning streak in 1925 to include a win over Fulton. Wills was still World Colored Champion and should have given Godfrey his shot at that title, he refused. Wills lost that title after his loss to Sharkey a year later.

[billeau2]

- - Primo easily outboxing Godfrey, the reason he shifted the blatant low blows in spite of repeated ref warnings, hence a DQ of which his record is littered with.

Must of been born yesterday for the umpteenth time today.

BS. I know you didn't watch the fight and I know the general consensus... I call BS.

Here is the fight

https://********/RzeY4udtFQg
https://********/G_4dku3Sd0A

So first three rounds? Not a pretty fight, Godfrey scoring a little more...
Prior to DQ, Primo scoring a little more perhaps, AND I am overplaying for Canera! One could say he was getting hit a lot more if we count all of the body attack, but I like to be fair... There is no way one can say Godfrey is hitting low... No matter how you score the fight.

I cannot see the low blow. Assuming it happened, to stay down that long is ridiculous and, Godfrey was hitting the body the other blows were not low. So... In a relatively even fight, Canero goes down forever and a day on a blow which, is hardly even visible. Godfrey was not warned prior to, so that shows he was not hitting low and that IF there was a low blow, IF... it was not a regular occurence.

Any more BS to deconstruct?

[Ivich]

BS. I know you didn't watch the fight and I know the general consensus... I call BS.

Here is the fight

https://********/RzeY4udtFQg
https://********/G_4dku3Sd0A

So first three rounds? Not a pretty fight, Godfrey scoring a little more...
Prior to DQ, Primo scoring a little more perhaps, AND I am overplaying for Canera! One could say he was getting hit a lot more if we count all of the body attack, but I like to be fair... There is no way one can say Godfrey is hitting low... No matter how you score the fight.

I cannot see the low blow. Assuming it happened, to stay down that long is ridiculous and, Godfrey was hitting the body the other blows were not low. So... In a relatively even fight, Canero goes down forever and a day on a blow which, is hardly even visible. Godfrey was not warned prior to, so that shows he was not hitting low and that IF there was a low blow, IF... it was not a regular occurence.

Any more BS to deconstruct?

,Godfrey was known to "wear the cuffs ",on occasion.It's a sad indictment,not on the man .but on an era when black fighters often had to"do business," to survive.