Where do you rank Vitaly Klitschko all time amongst heavyweights?

[Dr. Z]

The desire for a fair and balanced metric is understandable. However, use of the Ring monthly ratings to achieve this, without factoring the Ring panel proclivity for pushing prospects before proof over established contenders; and the quality of available active fighters to rank relative to other five year generation blocks, with consideration of quantified depth (an inevitable dynamic), the meaning of your method is critically flawed, which has, with my apologies, produced a specious argument on your part.
I've explaned that in another thread, and all the debate points counting Vitali's opponents ranked by the Ring were scuttled from that moment.

To be plain spoken about this, the era in which Vitali worked was comparatively Weak. Many of the top 10 contenders that the Ring listed in those years would fail to crack the top 10 or 15 today. (I've already posted a slew of such names).

Where I've ranked Vitali above over a 50 year and 130 year span, legacy or head to head, is fair.

I'm a bottom line guy, and that's the bottom line.

What better method of rankings is there to judge? Well? Why don't we list the records of opponents beaten and age when they fought any TOP ten all timer claimed? Are you game? I am a bottom line guy too.

If you think a small men under 210 pounds under would rate in Vitali's time...Maybe if we are talking 1990's or 1970's. They are too small in general and the big ones were not very good form 1920-1960's . Their skills are pretty much are lacking. Vitali's generation which I might add includes Soviet block fighters and Cubans. Many of the top fighters since the 2000's. All men over 200 pounds. No color lines. The color line which pretty much ended with Rocky Marciano fighting several black contenders. Before him the Black guys / Foreigners were shafted. No need to list them all. There are a lot of them.

[Willow The Wisp]

What better method of rankings is there to judge? Well? Why don't we list the records of opponents beaten and age when they fought any TOP ten all timer claimed? Are you game? I am a bottom line guy too.

If you think a small men under 210 pounds under would rate in Vitali's time...Maybe if we are talking 1990's or 1970's. They are too small in general and the big ones were not very good form 1920-1960's . Their skills are pretty much are lacking. Vitali's generation which I might add includes Soviet block fighters and Cubans. Many of the top fighters since the 2000's. All men over 200 pounds. No color lines. The color line which pretty much ended with Rocky Marciano fighting several black contenders. Before him the Black guys / Foreigners were shafted. No need to list them all. There are a lot of them.

I get all that Z, and I respect your enthusiasm, your efforts and above all your God given right to draw your own conclusions and stick by them. As to "debates" that I will engage; I am very choice about who I'll qualify as deemed worthy. The selection process is predicated on demonstrated knowledge and reason, and also, if, based on my prior posts on topic, the fellow poster seems inclined to acknowledge what I've already said and have dropped their guard enough to have rolled it into their in-process suite of logical thinking. No worries though my friend; as there are others who are willing to engage you. Vitali is ranked precisely where I've placed him. No lower. No higher. So it seems that in addition to being a bottom line guy, I may on occasion be a little smug. But not unkind.

[Marchegiano]

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Johnson
4. Lewis
5. Holmes
6. Marciano
7. Tyson
8. Dempsey
9. Foreman
10. Jeffries
11. Frazier
12. Holyfield
13. Charles
14. Wills
15. Bowe
16. Burns
17. Walcott
18. Norton
19. Fitzsimmons
20. Langford
21. Sharkey
22. Corbett
23. Liston
24. Jeanette
25. Loughran
26. McVey
27. Spinks
28. Wlad
29. Vitali
30. Primo

My criteria is simple and can't be argued with; who impressed most.

Don't have to like it but there's 30. I might be able to do 50 or even 100 but honestly I am clearly not as knowledgeable as you guys seems to be. Feel free to criticize, I won't argue or make a case I'll just say thanks for teaching me something or I appreciate your input or some similarly humble response.

[Marchegiano]

Oh, h2h I think vitali takes wlad. I only rate Wlad higher because of his long ass reign as unified champion. He was champion most the time I've watched boxing. It's too bad he never really had anyone to fight.

[QueensburyRules]

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Johnson
4. Lewis
5. Holmes
6. Marciano
7. Tyson
8. Dempsey
9. Foreman
10. Jeffries
11. Frazier
12. Holyfield
13. Charles
14. Wills
15. Bowe
16. Burns
17. Walcott
18. Norton
19. Fitzsimmons
20. Langford
21. Sharkey
22. Corbett
23. Liston
24. Jeanette
25. Loughran
26. McVey
27. Spinks
28. Wlad
29. Vitali
30. Primo

My criteria is simple and can't be argued with; who impressed most.

Don't have to like it but there's 30. I might be able to do 50 or even 100 but honestly I am clearly not as knowledgeable as you guys seems to be. Feel free to criticize, I won't argue or make a case I'll just say thanks for teaching me something or I appreciate your input or some similarly humble response.

- - Life and boxing are considerably more than linear two dimensional lists when there are at least 5 dimensions in everyday life with as yet undiscovered dimensions we cannot currently fathom.

[them_apples]

First.....lets not turn this into a flame war. I'm just curious where you rate Vits all time based on his resume of work. Do not rate him on how you think he would do in other era's or against fighters he never fought. That is irrelevant and in no way provable. I think we can all agree he would be a force in any era. Proving that though is not possible.

Remember, civil discussions please. I see a lot of us, myself included, getting to emotionally invested to prove our points of view.

if based on resume, 21-30

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Life and boxing are considerably more than linear two dimensional lists when there are at least 5 dimensions in everyday life with as yet undiscovered dimensions we cannot currently fathom.

What's you do ... switch from Bourbon to acid?

BTW What's the 5th dimension?

[QueensburyRules]

What's you do ... switch from Bourbon to acid?

BTW What's the 5th dimension?

- - Spiritual unless you're grim atheist who have yet to discover an atheist culture in the archeologic record.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Spiritual unless you're grim atheist who have yet to discover an atheist culture in the archeologic record.

Yet to discover a peaceful one either.

[Marchegiano]

- - Spiritual unless you're grim atheist who have yet to discover an atheist culture in the archeologic record.

Heaps say Buddha was atheist. Seems pretty archeological and cultural to me.

I agree about lists being a bit overly simplified for what boxing is though.

This is based on resume though isn't it? Simple enough simplification to follow. All I meant to say was my list is resume based on how impressive the wins are to me. As in I'm not trying to back it with HOF or top ten or anything of that sort.