Some who've actually seen em' are calling Tyson Fury the best ever.

[billeau2]

- - Lar never once entered civil rights activists debates. He made up a convenient excuse to excuse himself for working for DKing who was a South African mainstay back then.

What grade was U in then?

No he didn't... But he did fight against King, who stabled many of the fighters in the division during that time. There is also no logical reason to put Holmes having a fear of fighting any of the fighters from South Africa at that time, who were easy pickins! Coetze may have been the best of them but the best were not that good.

It just does not make sense... Don't take it personally.

[billeau2]

Yes! Same thing. Just opposite sides of the same coin, boxing wise.

I understand you believe one stand to be correct and the other wrong. I agree, but you can't say one guy was ducking and had an obligation to challenge current attitudes (Dempsey) and that the other guy (Holmes) is not ducking because he took a political stand you agree with.

You're willing to accept one fighter's decision/excuse while refusing to apply the same standard to the other fighter.

The real problem is when you look closer at the arguments. With Dempsey one could make the argument that Wills was a challenge. Hence, the debate about Wills, the color line, etc.

With Holmes, despite his attitude about South African Politics, one cannot say he had a fear of Coetze as a boxing threat. Especially when we look at how Holmes fought King tooth and nail, and possibly, as a black man in America, might have a reason to avoid boxing in Apartheid South Africa.

[JAB5239]

Yes! Same thing. Just opposite sides of the same coin, boxing wise.

I understand you believe one stand to be correct and the other wrong. I agree, but you can't say one guy was ducking and had an obligation to challenge current attitudes (Dempsey) and that the other guy (Holmes) is not ducking because he took a political stand you agree with.

You're willing to accept one fighter's decision/excuse while refusing to apply the same standard to the other fighter.

Totally off base. Dempsey refused against righteousness, Holmes refused oit of righteousness. This shouldnt even be arguable. One said I will not defend the title because of the oppressed, the other said I will not defend against a nation that oppresses. You're an intelligent man, I know you can see the difference.

[Willie Pep 229]

Totally off base. Dempsey refused against righteousness, Holmes refused oit of righteousness. This shouldnt even be arguable. One said I will not defend the title because of the oppressed, the other said I will not defend against a nation that oppresses. You're an intelligent man, I know you can see the difference.

Of course I see the difference but half the population supported the color line and wasn't shy about expressing their oppression.

It was still a political decision, and not a boxing decision, both times, or it wasn't.

[JAB5239]

Of course I see the difference but half the population supported the color line and wasn't shy about expressing their oppression.

It was still a political decision, and not a boxing decision, both times, or it wasn't.

I would say, and whether you consider it provable or not, more of the population, at least boxing fans wanted the fight. That it didn't happen was never about segregation in boxing being wrong, n I r segregation In the US being right. Without a doubt, the only reason Holmes didn't fight Coetzee in South Africa was because of racial segregation in a country that wouldn't vudge.

[QueensburyRules]

No he didn't... But he did fight against King, who stabled many of the fighters in the division during that time. There is also no logical reason to put Holmes having a fear of fighting any of the fighters from South Africa at that time, who were easy pickins! Coetze may have been the best of them but the best were not that good.

It just does not make sense... Don't take it personally.

- - Coetzee KDed Snipes to put him on a runner/stinker/floater/sinker run that American judges love so.

In South Africa the judges for a title fight were international more in tune aggressive boxing. Snipes was low hanging fruit, easy payday for Lar who clearly didn't fancy his chances vs Coetzee to turn down a career purse. Even so, Lar barely survived Snipes.

[JAB5239]

- - Coetzee KDed Snipes to put him on a runner/stinker/floater/sinker run that American judges love so.

In South Africa the judges for a title fight were international more in tune aggressive boxing. Snipes was low hanging fruit, easy payday for Lar who clearly didn't fancy his chances vs Coetzee to turn down a career purse. Even so, Lar barely survived Snipes.

Tell us again how Cowasnt relevant when the Holmes fight was made and fell out. Your knowledge is second rate at best.

[Willie Pep 229]

I would say, and whether you consider it provable or not, more of the population, at least boxing fans wanted the fight. That it didn't happen was never about segregation in boxing being wrong, n I r segregation In the US being right. Without a doubt, the only reason Holmes didn't fight Coetzee in South Africa was because of racial segregation in a country that wouldn't vudge.

And I am glad he did - no reason to pump money or prestige into South Africa at that time.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Coetzee KDed Snipes to put him on a runner/stinker/floater/sinker run that American judges love so.

In South Africa the judges for a title fight were international more in tune aggressive boxing. Snipes was low hanging fruit, easy payday for Lar who clearly didn't fancy his chances vs Coetzee to turn down a career purse. Even so, Lar barely survived Snipes.

Coetzee fought Tate in late '79. When did Holmes refuse to fight Coetzee? This is all quite early for Holmes, he is only a recognized champion for four months at this point.

I guess they were jumping all over the white skin of Coetzee right out of the gate; they got that fight in Cooney.

[billeau2]

- - Coetzee KDed Snipes to put him on a runner/stinker/floater/sinker run that American judges love so.

In South Africa the judges for a title fight were international more in tune aggressive boxing. Snipes was low hanging fruit, easy payday for Lar who clearly didn't fancy his chances vs Coetzee to turn down a career purse. Even so, Lar barely survived Snipes.

Its possible you are right, but let me tell you how this works. It is much much much more probable that Holmes had other reasons for not fighting Coetzee, like his stated reason for example. It just makes more sense that Holmes was not afraid of Coetzee. I would not call your contention a violation of Ocham's razor, because one reason is not SIMPLIER, less complex than the other one... But you want people to believe Holmes made an excuse to avoid Coetzee out of fear. This is despite Holmes own explanation and the obvious hate for King Holmes had. Yet to you. Holmes says to hisself "Well golly ge, those South African judges will never let me float like a butter fly! and that Coetzee feller is scary!"

I mean think about how this sounds...