Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?

[Ivich]

- - How was Lewie out of shape when he imported Manny to England to help him set up a one month pretraining routine before moving to LA for a full 8 week camp when Vlad had been busy in courtrooms successfully suing Lewie 3x as WBC mandatory?

Vit was a convenient TBA 2week replace for Kirk Johnson when he hurt his tltty. Of course Vit gonna fight after moving heaven and hell, and then Lewie was ordered to fight him in the immediate rematch where Vit also gets a full camp sparking Lewie retirement 5 fights short of his lucrative retirement schedule.

Jus da facs, ma'am...

Lewis was 6 1/4lbs heavier than for his most recent fight against Tyson and10lbs heavier than he had been for the Rahman fight before that.He was a career high 256 1/2lbs.

Both men had the same notice of a change of opponent.Vitali knew he was to fight on the card 6 months before it happened.
"The fight between Lewis and Klitschko was to take place in December 2003, and Klitschko signed for a tune-up fight on 21 June 2003 as part of the undercard of Lewis's fight with Kirk Johnson for the IBO title, as the WBC would not sanction the fight for their title. Johnson, however, pulled out of the fight due to injury and Klitschko, due to his being in training for a fight on the same day as Lewis, took the fight on short notice. Immediately after he accepted, the WBC elected to sanction the fight as a title match and Lewis's The Ring title was also up for grabs in addition to his lineal title."

[BattlingNelson]

I find that there is a real lack of logic involving the assesment of these two... They could punch... But by any measure of objectivity they are weak and fought and beat many in a weak era where the general level of skills was lacking. Imagine a fighter in Liston's time "flinching" like Vlad did lol. Vitalie had skills but never fought anyone and won... he made a good effort against an out of shape Lewis.

Logic?

Ok. If you take a random sample of 10 fighters and let them fight you end up with the best. Then you take another sample of fighters some 20 lbs heavier and increase the sample to 50 fighters and then find the best.

Who would be the best using logic? The best of sample 1 or the best of sample 2?

[BattlingNelson]

Lewis was 6 1/4lbs heavier than for his most recent fight against Tyson and10lbs heavier than he had been for the Rahman fight before that.He was a career high 256 1/2lbs.

Both men had the same notice of a change of opponent.Vitali knew he was to fight on the card 6 months before it happened.
"The fight between Lewis and Klitschko was to take place in December 2003, and Klitschko signed for a tune-up fight on 21 June 2003 as part of the undercard of Lewis's fight with Kirk Johnson for the IBO title, as the WBC would not sanction the fight for their title. Johnson, however, pulled out of the fight due to injury and Klitschko, due to his being in training for a fight on the same day as Lewis, took the fight on short notice. Immediately after he accepted, the WBC elected to sanction the fight as a title match and Lewis's The Ring title was also up for grabs in addition to his lineal title."

1: Lennox knew the change before Vitali as he had to say yes first.
2: Vitali was preparing for an undercard fight. The shift to fighting for the biggest title in sports is massive.

So you implying its the same thing for both is unfair.

[QueensburyRules]

Lewis was 6 1/4lbs heavier than for his most recent fight against Tyson and10lbs heavier than he had been for the Rahman fight before that.He was a career high 256 1/2lbs.

Both men had the same notice of a change of opponent.Vitali knew he was to fight on the card 6 months before it happened.
"The fight between Lewis and Klitschko was to take place in December 2003, and Klitschko signed for a tune-up fight on 21 June 2003 as part of the undercard of Lewis's fight with Kirk Johnson for the IBO title, as the WBC would not sanction the fight for their title. Johnson, however, pulled out of the fight due to injury and Klitschko, due to his being in training for a fight on the same day as Lewis, took the fight on short notice. Immediately after he accepted, the WBC elected to sanction the fight as a title match and Lewis's The Ring title was also up for grabs in addition to his lineal title."

- - We all know U never got the email that most fighters, especially heavies gain weight as they age. Lewis won all but one fight when he recorded new career weights.

We also know that since either U don't really follow boxing or do so poorly, U never got the email that most Vitali opponents came in heavier than normal because Vit is such a huge guy.

You can say they had the same notice, but clearly after losing 3 lawsuits, Lewie had learned well at the knee of DKing and pulled a classic Bait & Switch move that swindlers and con artists everywhere rely on. U being a somewhat unstudied chap can be excused in part of not knowing this because as Clint Eastwood once classically noted, "A man has got to know his limitations."

[Willow The Wisp]

Lol, many good points made in debate here. I suppose I would be depriving people of their sport here if I stated simply that Lewis was an aging great when one of the two standard bearers of the following generation stepped up and gave him all he could handle and on short notice, but owing to a bad cut and no shortage of aplomb shown by both warriors, we were treated to a classic in which the old lion would retain his title and never return again to lose it in the ring, joining only Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano in doing that rare thing.

[Ivich]

- - We all know U never got the email that most fighters, especially heavies gain weight as they age. Lewis won all but one fight when he recorded new career weights.

We also know that since either U don't really follow boxing or do so poorly, U never got the email that most Vitali opponents came in heavier than normal because Vit is such a huge guy.

You can say they had the same notice, but clearly after losing 3 lawsuits, Lewie had learned well at the knee of DKing and pulled a classic Bait & Switch move that swindlers and con artists everywhere rely on. U being a somewhat unstudied chap can be excused in part of not knowing this because as Clint Eastwood once classically noted, "A man has got to know his limitations."

Yeah I'm a newbie I boxed off and on for only 20 years and have followed the sport for only 64 years since I saw my first bout at the age of 9.
If there's anything I need to know ,I'll be sure to come to you ,our resident troll.
I'm sure you will give me the real insider info.

Opponents added weight to fight Vitali? Did they?

Sanders was heavier in all his subsequent fights.

Adamek was heavier in all his next 14 bouts.

Charr added 14lbs for his next fight AFTER Vitali and was only lighter in 3 of his previous 21 fights.

Chisora was17 lbs lighter for Vitali than he had been.

Do you know what is really astonishing?
That a complete ignoramus as far as boxing is concerned like yourself, actually thinks he has some knowledge and is impressing the forum with this pidgin, baby talk nonsense.It's mind blowing!

[Rosco3387]

- - How was Lewie out of shape when he imported Manny to England to help him set up a one month pretraining routine before moving to LA for a full 8 week camp when Vlad had been busy in courtrooms successfully suing Lewie 3x as WBC mandatory?

Vit was a convenient TBA 2week replace for Kirk Johnson when he hurt his tltty. Of course Vit gonna fight after moving heaven and hell, and then Lewie was ordered to fight him in the immediate rematch where Vit also gets a full camp sparking Lewie retirement 5 fights short of his lucrative retirement schedule.

Jus da facs, ma'am...

He was training to face an opponent who was virtually no threat. It was obvious from his looks that he was out of shape... This was a "gimme" fight.

[Rosco3387]

- - We all know U never got the email that most fighters, especially heavies gain weight as they age. Lewis won all but one fight when he recorded new career weights.

We also know that since either U don't really follow boxing or do so poorly, U never got the email that most Vitali opponents came in heavier than normal because Vit is such a huge guy.

You can say they had the same notice, but clearly after losing 3 lawsuits, Lewie had learned well at the knee of DKing and pulled a classic Bait & Switch move that swindlers and con artists everywhere rely on. U being a somewhat unstudied chap can be excused in part of not knowing this because as Clint Eastwood once classically noted, "A man has got to know his limitations."

Its not just "weight" though truly... Weight is seldom a "good" thing. Lewis showed up in horrible shape. The big mystery was why Lewis accepted this fight on the terms offered... You know that lewis did not "bulk" because of Vitalie's size Queen B... Come on now lol.

[BattlingNelson]

Its not just "weight" though truly... Weight is seldom a "good" thing. Lewis showed up in horrible shape. The big mystery was why Lewis accepted this fight on the terms offered... You know that lewis did not "bulk" because of Vitalie's size Queen B... Come on now lol.

He of course accepted the fight because he knew that the cards would be stacked against the challenger who only had prepared for an undercard fight, while Lewis had a full championship camp under his belt. Lewis had avoided Klitschko for a very long time and Lewis knew that this would be his best chance of winning.

[Dr. Z]

L

I have no problem ranking Lewis high... He could be in a top five list IMO, not sure where you got any Lewis info from.

You have to look at tape and the skills the men had. Size is a very misunderstood aspect of prize fighting. it can be an advantage, a disadvantage, or irrelevant (for example if someone is less weight, but has reach like Wilder). magazine ranks are subjective and not absolute. The most skillful fighter Vitalie fought he lost to, whether that be Byrd, or Lewis. The guys that Liston fought on many occasions, threw all punches, fought at all ranges, had footwork and could counter punch. Compare that to opponents like Sam Peter, who had such limited skills, and were slow of foot.

No its mostly and advantage. If the bigger man knows how to clinch and moves as Vitali, and combines this with a good jab and power its game over. The smaller man MUST get up close and inside to have a chance.

I'm talking about a modernized heavyweight vs a heavyweight 5 decades or so back to the 1920's. There is vast difference in the height, weight and reach alone when comparing the garden variety contenders to each other . Peter was dominated by Klitschko. He didn't win a round and was taken out. You say he has limited skills, well he beat James Toney twice, please explain! Peter was a fair boxer with his jab, but obvisouly power was his best stuff. I must have missed it, who did Liston beat again above 200 pounds? And you say Vitali had weak competition. Um, okay.