Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?

[QueensburyRules]

I am not directly comparing the legacies with Ali, just pointing out your acrimonious nit picking facts that you do not apply to others. You seldom do. They all fight men as long tenured champion that didn't deserve title shots over the ring magazine ranked contenders but few that Vitali fought " the unworthy types "as your point out, he blew them out, not getting floored, losing rounds to them as the field of greats heavyweights often did. Some would say Ali got gifted decisions too. You list plenty if them.

No need to mention the names you listed as Ali is in my top three heavyweights of all time. Three men have fought more ring magazine ranked contenders! Still even Ali wanted no part of re-matching Foreman. I think he lost on if the Norton fights for sure the he officially won, ad you could say the same thing for his match with Jimmy Young. The Shavers fight was very close. And this does not mention a fights where he was down, or a razor thin win that Ali had on the cards such as Sonny Banks and Doug Jones.

One of the things I outlined in this thread is Vitali was utterly dominant regardless on the score cards of who he fought, whether they were ring magazine ranked opponent or not!

You miss such points.

- - His point be on the top of his pinhaid, ie !

[Willow The Wisp]

You are asking him for sources? Good luck with that!
Wlad couldnt draw flies in the US his safety first, jab and grab style turned fans off.

K2 the Group the Klits were tied to, wanted the first 2 options on Haye if he fought Vitali and won.In effect that's the first 2 title defences against opponents of their choosing and dates,and venues of their choosing.
I think we know whom the 2 opponents would have been should Haye have got lucky!
I read in the Ring that this was standard practice for the Brothers but of course some top fighters refused these terms so we don't have the specifics.

There is no getting away from the fact that Vitali did not fight over 20 Ring ranked opponents whilst he himself was ranked.
Mentioning other names that may have acted similarly does not excuse this.
"He did it so why can't I?" is not any mitigation.

Those that acted as Vitali did are as culpable of ducking as he is.

I've said he and his Brother are admirable men and I meant it,but Vitali's legacy is terminally damaged by the lack of meaningful names on it and not being floored or losing rounds to the likes of Manuel Charr ,Danny Williams, and Albert Sosnowski does not, and never will alter that fact.

He remains an alphabet champ who kept to the shallow end of the pool ,and never swam in deep water apart from challenging Lewis and losing.

That's the case well stated.

[Willow The Wisp]

Vitali turned pro a month before Bowe-Golota II. When was Vitali-Bowe ever a viable fight that anybody tried to negotiate?

That poster is a true, knowledgeable fan just like many here, but he enjoys provocative statments, historical corruption and dabbling in a little light trolling. His old posting was better. That's the deal.

[Willow The Wisp]

You might want to revise this list as you missed out on some names that beat such as Sanders. Also names like Chagev and Ibragamiov are better and have proven more than a few active fighters listed.

- My 2 cents

Well, these things are always subjective of course, and your two cents are just as good as mine. Ive seen 41 of those 50 live and hopefully you've enjoyed seeing some of them do their thing too.
You can learn from me if you have the will to. By the same token I can learn from you too.
Corrie Sanders, Filip Hrgovic, Kubrat Pulev, Nikolay Valuev, John Ruiz, Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Blue Lewis, Herbie Hyde, Oleg Maskaev, Jeff Merritt, Ruslan Chagaev, Carl Williams, Tony Thompson, Lamon Brewster, Leotis Martin, Buster Mathis, Jameel McCline, Kirk Johnson, Karl Mildenberger, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster, Chris Arreola, Renaldo Snipes, Samuel Peter, Roy Jones Jr., Lance Whitaker, Robert Helenius, Big Train Lincoln, Sultan Ibragimov, Thad Spencer,
Axel Schultz, Michael Sprott, Leon Spinks, Kallie Knoetze, Odlanier Solís, Danny Williams....are some who've missed the cut and there are many others; all for very carefully weighted reasons. My reasons.

[Dr. Z]

Well, these things are always subjective of course, and your two cents are just as good as mine. Ive seen 41 of those 50 live and hopefully you've enjoyed seeing some of them do their thing too.
You can learn from me if you have the will to. By the same token I can learn from you too.
Corrie Sanders, Filip Hrgovic, Kubrat Pulev, Nikolay Valuev, John Ruiz, Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Blue Lewis, Herbie Hyde, Oleg Maskaev, Jeff Merritt, Ruslan Chagaev, Carl Williams, Tony Thompson, Lamon Brewster, Leotis Martin, Buster Mathis, Jameel McCline, Kirk Johnson, Karl Mildenberger, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster, Chris Arreola, Renaldo Snipes, Samuel Peter, Roy Jones Jr., Lance Whitaker, Robert Helenius, Big Train Lincoln, Sultan Ibragimov, Thad Spencer,
Axel Schultz, Michael Sprott, Leon Spinks, Kallie Knoetze, Odlanier Solís, Danny Williams....are some who've missed the cut and there are many others; all for very carefully weighted reasons. My reasons.

I not going to argue who you have seen live ( it is impressive! ). Maybe you have seen less the men in terms of tv / film / and internet fights. Maybe you have not. Either way To place Fury where you have and his opponents where you do is somthing I just do not agree on. Allow me to nit pick for the moment. Dillan Whyte is not better than all of the above names and is a mistake in my book And that point I'm done critiquing your list. I revise my list when I get good information. I can learn for you too. If you want more I'll weigh in,.

Cheers. I offer you a beer. Dark ale or Golden?

[Willow The Wisp]

I not going to argue who you have seen live ( it is impressive! ). Maybe you have seen less the men in terms of tv / film / and internet fights. Maybe you have not. Either way To place Fury where you have and his opponents where you do is somthing I just do not agree on. Allow me to nit pick for the moment. Dillan Whyte is not better than all of the above names and is a mistake in my book And that point I'm done critiquing your list. I revise my list when I get good information. I can learn for you too. If you want more I'll weigh in,.

Cheers. I offer you a beer. Dark ale or Golden?

Absolutely! Just because I don't (or try not to) debate, shoot insults or engage in one upman**** doesn't mean that I'm not absorbing what people think, research and present. I just beleive in detente, and the right of others to make their own choices on a forum such as this.
what were you expressing when you wrote "Dillan Whyte is not better than all of the above names"? My lists tend to be rather off the cuff, and I'm always open minded.

[Ivich]

You are asking him for sources? Good luck with that!
Wlad couldnt draw flies in the US his safety first, jab and grab style turned fans off.

K2 the Group the Klits were tied to, wanted the first 2 options on Haye if he fought Vitali and won.In effect that's the first 2 title defences against opponents of their choosing and dates,and venues of their choosing.
I think we know whom the 2 opponents would have been should Haye have got lucky!
I read in the Ring that this was standard practice for the Brothers but of course some top fighters refused these terms so we don't have the specifics.

There is no getting away from the fact that Vitali did not fight over 20 Ring ranked opponents whilst he himself was ranked.
Mentioning other names that may have acted similarly does not excuse this.
"He did it so why can't I?" is not any mitigation.

Those that acted as Vitali did are as culpable of ducking as he is.

I've said he and his Brother are admirable men and I meant it,but Vitali's legacy is terminally damaged by the lack of meaningful names on it and not being floored or losing rounds to the likes of Manuel Charr ,Danny Williams, and Albert Sosnowski does not, and never will alter that fact.

He remains an alphabet champ who kept to the shallow end of the pool ,and never swam in deep water apart from challenging Lewis and losing.

Excusing Vitali cherry picking his opponents his whole career,because Ali fought some gimmees is a deceitful sham. Ali fought anyone who deserved a chance
Ali beat
Listonx2
Patterson x2
Foreman
Frazierx3
Thats 4 great fighters.
He beat.
.
He also beat some excellent ones in;
Norton
Young
Ellis
Terrell
Bonavena
Shavers
Quarry
Jones

How many great fighters did Vitali beat?
How many excellent ones?

[QueensburyRules]

Excusing Vitali cherry picking his opponents his whole career,because Ali fought some gimmees is a deceitful sham. Ali fought anyone who deserved a chance
Ali beat
Listonx2
Patterson x2
Foreman
Frazierx3
Thats 4 great fighters.
He beat.
.
He also beat some excellent ones in;
Norton
Young
Ellis
Terrell
Bonavena
Shavers
Quarry
Jones

How many great fighters did Vitali beat?
How many excellent ones?

- - U cherry picking out U Bum ain't a good look.

Most of Vit title comp whoops most of Ali's starting wif broke back Floyd, I mean, have U no shame?

I thought not...

[BattlingNelson]

Excusing Vitali cherry picking his opponents his whole career,because Ali fought some gimmees is a deceitful sham. Ali fought anyone who deserved a chance
Ali beat
Listonx2
Patterson x2
Foreman
Frazierx3
Thats 4 great fighters.
He beat.
.
He also beat some excellent ones in;
Norton
Young
Ellis
Terrell
Bonavena
Shavers
Quarry
Jones

How many great fighters did Vitali beat?
How many excellent ones?

How many ring ranked opponents did Wlad fight?

[The Old LefHook]

Of course Vitaly is not a top ten AT heavyweight. He is not even top 30 in my opinion. There has not been a new question in the history section for eight years.