Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?

[The Old LefHook]

The international Boxing Hall of Fame supports the contention that Greb was a dirty fighter.

[Dr. Z]

Of course Vitaly is not a top ten AT heavyweight. He is not even top 30 in my opinion. There has not been a new question in the history section for eight years.

Not even top 30? Well few would agree with that. Perhaps zero would agree with you in the history forum. I laid out a case, in detail suggesting he is. I have not been here for 8 years the thread to me, at least with analytical and the framework laid out is new.

[QueensburyRules]

Of course Vitaly is not a top ten AT heavyweight. He is not even top 30 in my opinion. There has not been a new question in the history section for eight years.

- - Perhaps silenced in the middle of U post Klitschko screams of emasculation:

CODE: SELECT ALL
1 Heavyweight Vitali Klitschko 511.9751
2 Heavyweight Lennox Lewis 465.3450
3 Heavyweight Wladimir Klitschko 393.4660
4 Heavyweight Rocky Marciano 306.2420
5 Heavyweight Joe Louis 223.6930
6 Heavyweight Tyson Fury 218.0603
7 Heavyweight Muhammad Ali 211.9890
8 Heavyweight Sonny Liston 140.9280
9 Heavyweight Rid**** Bowe 126.3010
10 Heavyweight Ezzard Charles 125.6520
11 Heavyweight Anthony Joshua 114.6504
12 Heavyweight Deontay Wilder 108.5524

[Rosco3387]

I find that there is a real lack of logic involving the assesment of these two... They could punch... But by any measure of objectivity they are weak and fought and beat many in a weak era where the general level of skills was lacking. Imagine a fighter in Liston's time "flinching" like Vlad did lol. Vitalie had skills but never fought anyone and won... he made a good effort against an out of shape Lewis.

[Dr. Z]

I find that there is a real lack of logic involving the assesment of these two... They could punch... But by any measure of objectivity they are weak and fought and beat many in a weak era where the general level of skills was lacking. Imagine a fighter in Liston's time "flinching" like Vlad did lol. Vitalie had skills but never fought anyone and won... he made a good effort against an out of shape Lewis.

I am not here to say Lewis is a top 5 all time heavyweight, ( he is ) nor that he didn't not fight a lot of ring magazine ranked opponents ( he did like the 3rd most ! )

But to suggest that Vitali who fought 10 ring magazine raked contenders, and other champions that are not listed in ting magazine contenders ranked which when he fought them has plenty logic in it! I not here to say that the tiny men who Liston beat of lost to ( Marshall and Martin ) and bad losses. They were Facts will how you that, I am here to say with careful observation which I don't think you giving Vitali credit. He belongs among histories top ten heavies and I used standard for all. Needless to say Vital was never down or knocked cold..but Liston was to unranked men.

[JAB5239]

I am not here to say Lewis is a top 5 all time heavyweight, ( he is ) nor that he didn't not fight a lot of ring magazine ranked opponents ( he did like the 3rd most ! )

But to suggest that Vitali who fought 10 ring magazine raked contenders, and other champions that are not listed in ting magazine contenders ranked which when he fought them has plenty logic in it! I not here to say that the tiny men who Liston beat of lost to ( Marshall and Martin ) and bad losses. They were Facts will how you that, I am here to say with careful observation which I don't think you giving Vitali credit. He belongs among histories top ten heavies and I used standard for all. Needless to say Vital was never down or knocked cold..but Liston was to unranked men.

Liston didn't quit against Marshall even with a broken jaw. He also sought a rematch and stopped him to redeem himself. That you think that is a bad loss in his 7th fight is kind of baffling. And Martin was a top ten fighter when Liston lost in the second to last fight of his career.

[Rosco3387]

I am not here to say Lewis is a top 5 all time heavyweight, ( he is ) nor that he didn't not fight a lot of ring magazine ranked opponents ( he did like the 3rd most ! )

But to suggest that Vitali who fought 10 ring magazine raked contenders, and other champions that are not listed in ting magazine contenders ranked which when he fought them has plenty logic in it! I not here to say that the tiny men who Liston beat of lost to ( Marshall and Martin ) and bad losses. They were Facts will how you that, I am here to say with careful observation which I don't think you giving Vitali credit. He belongs among histories top ten heavies and I used standard for all. Needless to say Vital was never down or knocked cold..but Liston was to unranked men.

I have no problem ranking Lewis high... He could be in a top five list IMO, not sure where you got any Lewis info from.

You have to look at tape and the skills the men had. Size is a very misunderstood aspect of prize fighting. it can be an advantage, a disadvantage, or irrelevant (for example if someone is less weight, but has reach like Wilder). magazine ranks are subjective and not absolute. The most skillful fighter Vitalie fought he lost to, whether that be Byrd, or Lewis. The guys that Liston fought on many occasions, threw all punches, fought at all ranges, had footwork and could counter punch. Compare that to opponents like Sam Peter, who had such limited skills, and were slow of foot.

[Rosco3387]

Liston didn't quit against Marshall even with a broken jaw. He also sought a rematch and stopped him to redeem himself. That you think that is a bad loss in his 7th fight is kind of baffling. And Martin was a top ten fighter when Liston lost in the second to last fight of his career.

I always tell people Jab: If you simply go to Youtube... get a free account folks, tell em Rosco sent ya! and simply watch a nominal opponent for Liston, someone like WhiteHurst... compare what he could do in the ring to a nominal opponent fighting Vitalie and it tells one a lot. Obviously it is not absolute... but in the heavyweight division, the tide determines the level for all boats, more often than having a division with ATG's fighting each other regularly like we get in the 70's.

[JAB5239]

I always tell people Jab: If you simply go to Youtube... get a free account folks, tell em Rosco sent ya! and simply watch a nominal opponent for Liston, someone like WhiteHurst... compare what he could do in the ring to a nominal opponent fighting Vitalie and it tells one a lot. Obviously it is not absolute... but in the heavyweight division, the tide determines the level for all boats, more often than having a division with ATG's fighting each other regularly like we get in the 70's.

That Peter is the best win on Vits resume is very telling of how bad the era was in my opinion and how weak his resume really is.

[QueensburyRules]

I find that there is a real lack of logic involving the assesment of these two... They could punch... But by any measure of objectivity they are weak and fought and beat many in a weak era where the general level of skills was lacking. Imagine a fighter in Liston's time "flinching" like Vlad did lol. Vitalie had skills but never fought anyone and won... he made a good effort against an out of shape Lewis.

- - How was Lewie out of shape when he imported Manny to England to help him set up a one month pretraining routine before moving to LA for a full 8 week camp when Vlad had been busy in courtrooms successfully suing Lewie 3x as WBC mandatory?

Vit was a convenient TBA 2week replace for Kirk Johnson when he hurt his tltty. Of course Vit gonna fight after moving heaven and hell, and then Lewie was ordered to fight him in the immediate rematch where Vit also gets a full camp sparking Lewie retirement 5 fights short of his lucrative retirement schedule.

Jus da facs, ma'am...