1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[QueensburyRules]

- - Jeff was wanting to retire but folks were now screaming about JJohnson.

Hart squelched that when he whooped him making it much easier for Jeff to retire, but point in fact had JJohnson won that fight with his beauty in the eye of the beholder stink, run, and clinch style, Jeff had already reconciled with fighting JJohnson. Him losing to Hart made it easy for Jeff to quit boxing.

The only reason Jeff came back was not to wipe the golden smile off the face of Jack, but for the $$$ that was something like 3x his career earnings.

Jeff still in his physical prime then certainly had more motivation to naturally get in shape for a 25 round fight. Jack couldn't get away with clinching a strong Jeff who was tossing Sharkey around the ring like a rag doll back when. Jack would've known that Jeff had much better results against common opponents, so JJohnson's the one with the doubts that would prob play out exactly as he feared.

[travestyny]

I know you are trolling because you are bored and you want to see people argue about this, but this is easily proven false. Enlarge the image if you must.
You are lying.


Plus, I rarely have anything to say about fantasy fights since they are just that, but Jeffries himself admit he could never beat Johnson. That's good enough for me.

[Ivich]

I know you are trolling because you are bored and you want to see people argue about this, but this is easily proven false. Enlarge the image if you must.
You are lying.


Plus, I rarely have anything to say about fantasy fights since they are just that, but Jeffries himself admit he could never beat Johnson. That's good enough for me.

The thread poster and his tag partners cannot leave Johnson alone, they are like frenzied dogs ,compulsively returning to a shallowly buried old bone.

Everyone with any knowledge of Jeffries knows that he many ,many times said he would never chance losing his title against a black man and that he would retire," when there were no more white challengers left to fight".

Jeffries picked Johnson to win the Hart fight and publicly stated ,if he did he would not defend against him if he did.

This "click bait post" is not worthy of a serious response.

Why go to the trouble of pasting verified statements from the protagonists concerned that emphatically contradict all this fool will type?

This troll will ignore any serious evidence that totally rebutts his cast fly upon the water , or reply to it in childish, ****** ,pidgin, English.

There is no tangible benefit to be gained from engaging with this ignoramus,he has no interest in boxing just in the disruption of those that do, and the puerile satisfaction of seeing his infantile posts in print.

Apart from how to behave like a selfish, immature buffoon, and how to shamelessly prevaricate,anti Johnson BS ,there is nothing to be learned from this poster.

Don't give this Muppet the satisfaction of responding to him directly,you award a credibility to him he has never earned.

He is the forums virus. Get vaccinated against him!
Whenever threads on Johnson go quiet one of these sad clowns ,Snitch or Snatch, or the other phobic Johnson hater, Ghost of Degeneracy will make a post to keep the hate pot boiling

Cue time for one of the other 2 haters to give him a like ,and weigh in with his own mis -spelt load of venomous misinformation.

It's a shame they are doing this to the Forum, but nevertheless it's a sad fact!.

[QueensburyRules]

I know you are trolling because you are bored and you want to see people argue about this, but this is easily proven false. Enlarge the image if you must.
You are lying.


Plus, I rarely have anything to say about fantasy fights since they are just that, but Jeffries himself admit he could never beat Johnson. That's good enough for me.

- - Oh, boy, plenty of monkey tails to be yanked on this, yum, yum!

Jeff said he wanted Hart, but wait, wait, don't tell me he never fought Hart.

Impossible!

Delaney speaking for Jeff fine, but I've read enough to see Jeff was willing to face JJohnson, sooner than later because so many wanted the fight, so JJohnson gave him good reason to retire sooner after a stinker loss to Hart.

No matter, 1905 Jack vs Jeff, say Sept of 1905, and so now who you got?

[Dr. Z]

Jerries was in his prime then and had beaten better fighters. Johnson lost to Hart. Let's say for a moment for Johnson fans boys that he won a close one over Hart. He still not in the class of Jeffries. Jeffries said to the press that Johnson was among the names he'd consider post Munroe. FACT. He also said he would give Hart a fight after he beat Johnson if there was demand for it. There wasn't. The public saw it as a mis-match fight.

I suggest if Hart were black some of the squad who worship Johnson would accuse him of avoiding Hart.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Oh, boy, plenty of monkey tails to be yanked on this, yum, yum!

Jeff said he wanted Hart, but wait, wait, don't tell me he never fought Hart.

Impossible!

Delaney speaking for Jeff fine, but I've read enough to see Jeff was willing to face JJohnson, sooner than later because so many wanted the fight, so JJohnson gave him good reason to retire sooner after a stinker loss to Hart.

No matter, 1905 Jack vs Jeff, say Sept of 1905, and so now who you got?

The article is Delaney speaking (supposedly for Jeffries) and he says "'Jeffries (third person) under no circumstances will fight a Negro."

But then Jeffries does fight Jack Johnson (a Negro) so why are we placing any value on a Billy Delaney quote (not Jeffries) that states unequivocally that Jeffries wouldn't fight Johnson, when we know full well Jeffries would fight Johnson. Because he did.

It's bad enough when someone posts a Dempsey quote stating he won't cross the color line, when we all know we can find various examples of Dempsey saying just the opposite.

At least with the pointless Dempsey quoting he actually didn't fight Wills.

But this is a ridiculous argument to make, that a guy's manager says we won't take the fight, but the fighter will and does. Why make this argument?

Why are we wasting time with an irrelevant Billy Delaney quote?

[The Old LefHook]

I know you are trolling because you are bored and you want to see people argue about this, but this is easily proven false. Enlarge the image if you must.
You are lying.


Plus, I rarely have anything to say about fantasy fights since they are just that, but Jeffries himself admit he could never beat Johnson. That's good enough for me.

, non-objectivity is not

This is exactly why the evidence of "he said, she said," sometimes does not work for me. Jefferies' statement does not do it for me. "I could never have beaten him," is a common boxing trope. Many have said it. A man who just got his ass handed to him is diffident and subject to utter such words.

I do know this: the press were continually going on about how strong Jeff was. Let's see if the negro likes to clinch and wrestle against such strength as Jeff's, by God, was the essential attitude. So Johnson told them that during the fight he would pin Jeff's arm behind the big boy's own back. And indeed the film clearly shows exactly this happening at least once that I know of. Johnson was fulfilling his promise, so he made it obvious.

Johnson said some things too. A lot of boxers and managers and promoters have forever said some things. Giving these utterances too much credence leads to false truths. It would have to, right? Now we have people in the far future from Johnson's era relying heavily on "he said, she said," to argue the truth of matters long ago. I can just see some journalist a hundred years from now digging up some of Tyson Fury's statements and relying on them for how he really felt about this or that matter. Comical, right?

You have to use everything you've got, to give your best determination. Rumors, all of it. Journalism is good, but it takes a lot of judiciousness and objectivity. Boxers, promoters, mangers, trainers and writers say things all the time not only for their truth value but in order to influence their own current events. Some trainer is not sincere when he says the opponent they would like to fight has no heart, or some other such pejorative. He is trying to make things happen.

[Ivich]

The article is Delaney speaking (supposedly for Jeffries) and he says "'Jeffries (third person) under no circumstances will fight a Negro."

But then Jeffries does fight Jack Johnson (a Negro) so why are we placing any value on a Billy Delaney quote (not Jeffries) that states unequivocally that Jeffries wouldn't fight Johnson, when we know full well Jeffries would fight Johnson. Because he did.

It's bad enough when someone posts a Dempsey quote stating he won't cross the color line, when we all know we can find various examples of Dempsey saying just the opposite.

At least with the pointless Dempsey quoting he actually didn't fight Wills.

But this is a ridiculous argument to make, that a guy's manager says we won't take the fight, but the fighter will and does. Why make this argument?

Why are we wasting time with an irrelevant Billy Delaney quote?

Oh come on there are tons of public statements by Jeffries himself saying he would never DEFEND his title against a black man,you can't hang this on his trainer! Delaney wasn't Jeffries manager that was Bill Brady

.Jeffries would fight blacks, what he wouldn't do was take a chance of losing his title to one! Totally different ball game! And God knows he said it plenty of times!

Do you need verified, primary sourced quotes for this because I have them!

[Willie Pep 229]

Oh come on there are tons of public statements by Jeffries himself saying he would never DEFEND his title against a black man,you can't hang this on his trainer! Delaney wasn't Jeffries manager that was Bill Brady

.Jeffries would fight blacks, what he wouldn't do was take a chance of losing his title to one! Totally different ball game! And God knows he said it plenty of times!

Do you need verified, primary sourced quotes for this because I have them!

Delaney or Brady doesn't really matter now does it? - It's not Jeffries speaking is it? Why do you post pointless corrections that distract from the point being made?

I wasn't addressing the "tons" of public statements Jeffries supposedly made, I was addressing the one above.

My question still holds why post that statement when we know Jeffries would and did fight a Negro?

Obviously you missed my point about how one can post a 'ton' of quotes by Dempsey refusing to cross the color line only to have someone else post a 'ton' of quotes where he says he will.

So regardless of your distracting statement as to whether Delaney's poistion, was as manager, trainer, or just friend or foe, why bother posting that article when it means nothing?

[Dr. Z]

Oh come on there are tons of public statements by Jeffries himself saying he would never DEFEND his title against a black man,you can't hang this on his trainer! Delaney wasn't Jeffries manager that was Bill Brady

.Jeffries would fight blacks, what he wouldn't do was take a chance of losing his title to one! Totally different ball game! And God knows he said it plenty of times!

Do you need verified, primary sourced quotes for this because I have them!

Please explain Jeffries fighting Hank Griffin, a back man while champion in 1901. If Hank knocked him out, he's the next lineal champion! But as it was Jeffries floored him twice and Griffin did nothing but survive the fight. The very same Griffin beat Jack Johnson one time over 20 rounds and drew with him twice! Johnson has lots of 3,4, and 6 rounders on his resume. He even kept his colored title while low blowing Jeanette in two rounds in a DQ loss! Explain the above FACTS. Calling you out. Do not attempt to spin things. Answer the question, Tony.


And I still laughing directly in your face in the power thread. Johnson hit harder than Bowe you say?