1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[Ivich]

Delaney or Brady doesn't really matter now does it? - It's not Jeffries speaking is it? Why do you post pointless corrections that distract from the point being made?

I wasn't addressing the "tons" of public statements Jeffries supposedly made, I was addressing the one above.

My question still holds why post that statement when we know Jeffries would and did fight a Negro?

Obviously you missed my point about how one can post a 'ton' of quotes by Dempsey refusing to cross the color line only to have someone else post a 'ton' of quotes where he says he will.

So regardless of your distracting statement as to whether Delaney's poistion, was as manager, trainer, or just friend or foe, why bother posting that article when it means nothing?

Do I need to post Jeffries own statements that he would never defend his title against a black man?

Jeffries own statements not a trainer or manager!

Dempsey is totally irrevelant to this discussion .

WTF proof do you need?
Tell me ,and I'll post Jeffries public statements !

WTF do you need to make this register in your mind?

[Willie Pep 229]

Do I need to post Jeffries own statements that he would never defend his title against a black man?

Jeffries own statements not a trainer or manager!

Dempsey is totally irrevelant to this discussion .

WTF proof do you need?
Tell me ,and I'll post Jeffries public statements !

WTF do you need to make this register in your mind?

I think we're are arguing apples and oranges.

I believe you are unaware that there is this long running dispute on display here:

• white fighters used the color line as an excuse to avoid superior black fighters they were scared of
• white fighters refuse to cross the color line because they were scared of public reaction if they crossed the color line (especially with a title on the line)

Some of the posters relevant here, have in past, posted accusations that Jeffries feared fighting Johnson.

Then comes all of Jeffries (quotes) claims he will never cross the color line (such as the ones you can provide; I am certain you have them).

I then say these statements regarding Jeffries refusual to cross the color line are irrelevant to understanding or accepting Jeffries susposed fear of Johnson.

Why irrelevant you ask? Because when it was all said and done Jeffries fought the man.

An important also: also as I have argued before, preparation makes one confident. So certainly Jeffries was a more confident man in 1905 than he was five years and many extra pounds lbs. later, in 1910. Yet he took the fight. Does that man sound scared to you?

So I ask again why does anybody bother posting these Jeffries quotes, that he refused to cross the color line, when we all know that was the prevailing temperament?

It obviously tells us nothing about Jeffries susposed fear of Johnson.

How can I make such a definitive statement?

Because he went ahead and fought the man when he knew he was even less ready.

So I keep asking "Why do they post these pointless quotes about the color line and try to apply it to Jeffries as a man?

Maybe to try to sway the reader into believing Jeffries feared Johnson.

[Willie Pep 229]

Do I need to post Jeffries own statements that he would never defend his title against a black man?

Jeffries own statements not a trainer or manager!

Dempsey is totally irrevelant to this discussion .

WTF proof do you need?
Tell me ,and I'll post Jeffries public statements !

WTF do you need to make this register in your mind?

P.S. Sorry the relevance to Dempsey was . . .

If you are going to say that the white fighter was hiding from the black at least with Dempsey you can argue he NEVER DID fight Wills.

I don't believe Dempsey feared Wills either, but for Christ's sake how can one apply this argument to Jeffries when he DID fight the man.

[GhostofDempsey]

Even Langford, who chased Johnson all over the world for a title shot, once posted an ad in a newspaper that the would be willing to fight any man except Jim Jeffries.

7A538153-1472-420A-85C1-F9E699404E61.jpeg

[Willie Pep 229]

Even Langford, who chased Johnson all over the world for a title shot, once posted an ad in a newspaper that the would be willing to fight any man except Jim Jeffries.

7A538153-1472-420A-85C1-F9E699404E61.jpeg

That this bugs me a bit. - Wille Wood, star QB for USC was passed over in a 16 round NFL draft because no one would take on a black QB. He had to write a letter to the Green Bay Packers offering that if they gave him a try out at DB he would never ask to play QB.

I feel like that advertisement is pandering to the color line advocates. It saddens me to see that kind of racism on display. But I guess it was a way to get big fights with white fighters. Maybe the only way. It was the only way Willie Wood (HOF) was getting into the NFL.

[QueensburyRules]

Do I need to post Jeffries own statements that he would never defend his title against a black man?

- - JJohnson found out Jeffries watering hole and barged in to demand a fight. See, they was woke back then to let him in, not nearly so segregated as mutts like U think.

Jeff reached in his pockets to slap 5 $100 gold pieces on the bar and pointed to cellar door. Winner gets to come up the stairs and claim the purse, in this case Jeff fighting for free with his own money as the guarantee under no hold barred bareknucks free fer all with no Queensberry rules in sight.

So, that make U a liar and likely a cheat too. JJ turned tail and ran. There was no money in a JJohnson fight then until Rickard came along.

[GhostofDempsey]

That this bugs me a bit. - Wille Wood, star QB for USC was passed over in a 16 round NFL draft because no one would take on a black QB. He had to write a letter to the Green Bay Packers offering that if they gave him a try out at DB he would never ask to play QB.

I feel like that advertisement is pandering to the color line advocates. It saddens me to see that kind of racism on display. But I guess it was a way to get big fights with white fighters. Maybe the only way. It was the only way Willie Wood (HOF) was getting into the NFL.

I’m playing a little devils advocate. I suspect Langford would have been more than willing to fight Jeffries for his title if granted the opportunity, but this is further evidence that not everything written in print was factual, even when it came from the fighter’s themselves. For the actors on here who invest all of their faith in articles and 100+ year old newspaper clippings, this should give them some food for thought, lest they expose their double standards.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - JJohnson found out Jeffries watering hole and barged in to demand a fight. See, they was woke back then to let him in, not nearly so segregated as mutts like U think.

Jeff reached in his pockets to slap 5 $100 gold pieces on the bar and pointed to cellar door. Winner gets to come up the stairs and claim the purse, in this case Jeff fighting for free with his own money as the guarantee under no hold barred bareknucks free fer all with no Queensberry rules in sight.

So, that make U a liar and likely a cheat too. JJ turned tail and ran. There was no money in a JJohnson fight then until Rickard came along.

I certainly get the point you are making.

But we both know that was just Young Cassius predux chasing the 'big ugly bear' Liston around trying to get a shot at the title. Young Cassius never intended to fight Liston in the casino, and you know that

Jeff had a cellar door, Liston had a gun.

It getting harder and harder to come up with a great promotional move. You kind of have to begrudgingly respect the Brothers Paul. They're busting open barroom doors and yelling just like JJ.

[travestyny]

Cite the articles --> newspaper and date. We should know who is speaking.

The Barre daily times., October 06, 1903

[travestyny]

This guy Travesty is all about "he said, she said," don't you know? That is all he's got. He is just hanging around waiting for another thread on race, licking his chops. Oh, wait, this one is about race. I should have known he would be home.

This thread had nothing to do with race.

But we both know that I exposed you as a racist you little twat.