1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[travestyny]

Johnson was quoted saying he would draw the color line, he said he was the first black champ and would be the last, he said he threw the fight against Willard, he said Langford knocked him down, he lied about dozens of other things, yet the same poster doesn’t believe his quotes, he only believes quotes in 100 year old articles that support his agenda. It’s more cherry picking of sources to reach a pre-determined conclusion.

You are STILL going around lying about Jack Johnson saying he would draw the color line, huh? Do you know no shame? Everyone involved recognized it as a joke which is why the reporters laughed when he said he would draw the color line LIKE THE OTHER ACTORS, yet your dishonest ass will keep saying this as if it hasn't been proven.

Also, no one here believed Johnson was telling the truth when he said he took a dive vs. Willard. That's because some of us are here looking for the truth, and some like you are here for an agenda. You shouldn't be allowed to post in the history section with the amount of lies you tell on these boxers. Disgusting.

[travestyny]

I’m playing a little devils advocate. I suspect Langford would have been more than willing to fight Jeffries for his title if granted the opportunity, but this is further evidence that not everything written in print was factual, even when it came from the fighter’s themselves. For the actors on here who invest all of their faith in articles and 100+ year old newspaper clippings, this should give them some food for thought, lest they expose their double standards.

You want to know what was factual?

That court brief. I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about.

[travestyny]

I certainly get the point you are making.

.

I don't think anyone here has stated that everything written in print is factual. It's about taking all of the information that you can get your hands on and piecing together what happened.

And yes, that mostly comes from newspapers. The guy you were talking to would routinely (when he wasn't hypocritically posting newspaper articles) refer to historians as if they were the be all end all of it. Have you ever read a boxing history book that wasn't completely full of the newspaper articles cited at the end? That's where they pieced together their information mostly.

It's about finding multiple sources and putting the pieces to the puzzle together. That clown GhostofDempsey thinks it's about his feelings, which is why he tells so many lies here.

[Dr. Z]

So he should fight a teenage Sam Mcvey instead of Fitzsimmons and Corbett? They were much bigger fights and more money. McVey by the way retired in 1904 ( no fights listed ) Boxing is full of managers who think unworthy guys, which Mcvey at the time of the quote deserve a title shot. What was his record and age back then? Think about it. Sam Mcvey deserved a title shot when Johnson was champ. He was much better then and in his prime.

I think you will get it. It's not rocket science like you said.

Jeffries didn't want McVey or Johnson. People around him were saying he was afraid of Johnson.

Jeffries already beat Corbett and Fitzsimmons at this time. He fought James Monroe who only was 9 fights in instead, so I don't think the number of fights is relevant.

Seems to me that the California match makers wanted the fights. It's not like they were just hopping planes at this time. They wanted to make good fights with the talent that was available.

This article hints at that and also exposes Jeffries excuse making. You might need to enlarge it a bit.
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A personal score to settle with Munroe was next as the guy lied about a sparing session, anyway Mcvey was very green, and very young. Like 19 or 20. He didn't deserve a fight and RETIRED for in 1905, after losing thee fights in a row from early 1903 to late 1904. Taking 1905, the whole year off from the ring. When was this news article by his manager printed? Again how old was he then and what was his record then? Was he worthy of a title shot? No way, he was a kid who lost his last three fights and very young without a lot of fights. It's just noise. END. Got now?

As it was Jeffires flattened Munore in two rounds If a Reno like 1910 purse was offered he woud have fought Hart or Johnson. What fighters and managers say actually do when enough money is up ( I'm not sure if the money was secured for Mcvey. It was just noise ) can change.

Munroe has way more than just 9 fights, and Jeffries was the only man to knock him out.

[Ivich]

Delaney or Brady doesn't really matter now does it? - It's not Jeffries speaking is it? Why do you post pointless corrections that distract from the point being made?

I wasn't addressing the "tons" of public statements Jeffries supposedly made, I was addressing the one above.

My question still holds why post that statement when we know Jeffries would and did fight a Negro?

Obviously you missed my point about how one can post a 'ton' of quotes by Dempsey refusing to cross the color line only to have someone else post a 'ton' of quotes where he says he will.

So regardless of your distracting statement as to whether Delaney's poistion, was as manager, trainer, or just friend or foe, why bother posting that article when it means nothing?

YOU missed the point entirely and went Off at a tangent
Ill put it in caps for you,so you can grasp it.

JIM JEFFRIES MANY MANY TIMES PUBLICLY STATED HE WOULD NEVER DEFEND HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK MAN.


THIS IS NOT HE SUPPOSEDLY SAID ITS A STONE COLD FACT!

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO ACCEPT ANTHING AS TRUE?

DO YOU NEED A VIDEO OF JEFFRIES STATING HE WOULD NEVER RISK HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK MAN?

WOUILD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE ? OR WOULD YOU SAY IT MAY HAVE BEEN EDITED?



JEFFRIES FOUGHT JOHNSON BECAUSE JOHNSON WAS THE CHAMPION NOT JEFFRIES AND SO JEFFRIES HAD NO FEAR OF LOSING
HIS TITLE BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE ONE!

DEMPSEY HAS NOTHINGTO DO WITH THIS SUBJECT .

YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING PEDANTIC OBJECTIONS

YOU ARE THE ONE IMPLYING JEFFRIES MAY HAVE BEEN PREPARED TO DEFEND AGAINST JOHNSON

WHEN ALL THE WORLD EXCEPT THE THREE STOOGES KNOWS HE WOULD NOT!

FORGET DELANEY FORGET BRADY JEFFRIES STATED

IN PRINT COUNTLESS TIMES I WILL NEVER TAKE A CHANCE ON LOSING MY TITLE TO A BLACK MAN WHEN THERE ARE NO

MORE WHITE CHALLENGERS LEFT TO FIGHT I WILL RETIRE

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID!

ALL YOU EVER DO IS TAKE YOUR LITTLE STICK AND STIR UP THE POND TO MUDDY THE WATERS FOR NO PARTICULAR PURPOSE

I DONT THINK I''VE EVER READ A POST OF YOURS THAT EXPRESSES AN OPINION

ITS ALL JUST HANDWRINGING PROCRASTINATION AND FENCE SITTING.

DONT YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS OF YOUR OWN?

[QueensburyRules]

.

JIM JEFFRIES MANY MANY TIMES PUBLICLY STATED HE WOULD NEVER DEFEND HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK MAN.

- - WHAT?

In 1905 JJJeffries said he'd fight the winner of Hart/JJohnson.
He fought neither. Can U do the extrapolation, or do we need to call in Jabberwokey to 'splain the Birdies and Bees?

Good luck wif that!

[Willie Pep 229]

YOU missed the point entirely and went pff at a tangent
Ill put it in caps for you,so you can grasp it.

JIM JEFFRIES MANY MANY TIMES PUBLICLY STATED HE WOULD NEVER DEFEND HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK MAN.


THIS IS NOT HE SUPPOSEDLY SAID ITS A STONE COLD FACT!

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO ACCEPT ANTHING AS TRUE?

DO YOU NEED A VIDEO OF JEFFRIES STATING HE WOULD NEVER RISK HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK MAN?

WOUILD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE ? OR WOULD YOU SAY IT MAY HAVE BEEN EDITED?



JEFFRIES FOUGHT JOHNSON BECAUSE JOHNSON WAS THE CHAMPION NOT JEFFRIES AND SO JEFFRIES HAD NO FEAR OF LOSING
HIS TITLE BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE ONE!

DEMPSEY HAS NOTHINGTO DO WITH THIS SUBJECT .

YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING PEDANTIC OBJECTIONS

YOU ARE THE ONE IMPLYING JEFFRIES MAY HAVE BEEN PREPARED TO DEFEND AGAINST JOHNSON

WHEN ALL THE WORLD EXCEPT THE THREE STOOGES KNOWS HE WOULD NOT!

FORGET DELANEY FORGET BRADY JEFFRIES STATED

IN PRINT COUNTLESS TIMES I WILL NEVER TAKE A CHANCE ON LOSING MY TITLE TO A BLACK MAN WHEN THERE ARE NO

MORE WHITE CHALLENGERS LEFT TO FIGHT I WILL RETIRE

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID!

ALL YOU EVER DO IS TAKE YOUR LITTLE STICK AND STIR UP THE POND TO MUDDY THE WATERS FOR NO PARTICULAR PURPOSE

I DONT THINK I''VE EVER READ A POST OF YOURS THAT EXPRESSES AN OPINION

ITS ALL JUST HANDWRINGING PROCRASTINATION AND FENCE SITTING.

DONT YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS OF YOUR OWN?

Do us both a favor put me on your list of stooges.

[Ivich]

I don't think anyone here has stated that everything written in print is factual. It's about taking all of the information that you can get your hands on and piecing together what happened.

And yes, that mostly comes from newspapers. The guy you were talking to would routinely (when he wasn't hypocritically posting newspaper articles) refer to historians as if they were the be all end all of it. Have you ever read a boxing history book that wasn't completely full of the newspaper articles cited at the end? That's where they pieced together their information mostly.

It's about finding multiple sources and putting the pieces to the puzzle together. That clown GhostofDempsey thinks it's about his feelings, which is why he tells so many lies here.

Munroe had a total of 9 fights when he challenged Jeffries he is among the most underserving challengers the history of the heavyweight title has ever seen along with John Finnegan and Joe Kennedy two other Jeffries challengers.
Munroe had 17 fights altogether, 6 of them were against debutees .
Munroe got his shot on the basis of supposedly flooring Jeffries in an exhibition.as Jeffries not in top shape prepared to spar with Munroe Fitz who was on the same vaudeville tour with Jeffries said to Jeff put this mug away quickly,Jeffries said I'll let him hang around awhile to give the crowd a show.
Jeffries may have been partly floored , more likely he lost his footing and went down without being hit.

Munroes opportunistic manager hyped the situation out of all proportion until some began to believe Munroe actually had a chance with Jeffries.Munroe was not among them.
It was a one- sided blow out and Jeffries was bitterly dissappointed by the financial reward he received from it ,vowing never to participate in another such farce.

After McVey kod Denver Ed Martin in 1 round
A promoter guaranteed Jeffries a good purse to defend against McVey Jeffries did not respond to the challenge.
The papers speculated that McVey, over 200lbs would be a physical match for Jeffries.

The three consecutive fights that McVey lost were to Johnson 2 and Martin .hardly a disgrace.

[Ivich]

Do us both a favor put me on your list of stooges.

No need, Mr Wishy Washy , you're already there! lol

After sparring with Munroe Jeffries finished the evening by sparring4 rds with Fitzsimmons how badly hurt could he have been?
Fitz posted a $ 500 forfeit that he would ko Munroe inside 4 rds ,Munroe declined to accept it. Billings Gazette Dec 23rd 1902.
Jeffries said he allowed Munroe to last the 4 rds because Fitz had kod his man in the 1 st round. Fitz confirmed that Jeffries
had told him he was going to carry Munroe to give the public their money's worth.

[GhostofDempsey]

A personal score to settle with Munroe was next as the guy lied about a sparing session, anyway Mcvey was very green, and very young. Like 19 or 20. He didn't deserve a fight and RETIRED for in 1905, after losing thee fights in a row from early 1903 to late 1904. Taking 1905, the whole year off from the ring. When was this news article by his manager printed? Again how old was he then and what was his record then? Was he worthy of a title shot? No way, he was a kid who lost his last three fights and very young without a lot of fights. It's just noise. END. Got now?

As it was Jeffires flattened Munore in two rounds If a Reno like 1910 purse was offered he woud have fought Hart or Johnson. What fighters and managers say actually do when enough money is up ( I'm not sure if the money was secured for Mcvey. It was just noise ) can change.

Munroe has way more than just 9 fights, and Jeffries was the only man to knock him out.

Jeffries fought an exhibition with Munroe in 1903, the title shot was basically a rematch. Munroe made a good showing of himself, knocking Jeffries down for a 9 count in the 4th and final round of the exhibition. Munroe defeated Tom Sharkey the year he got his title shot with Jeff, while McVey lost 3 consecutive fights going into 1905, in fact he didn't even fight in all of '05. It's not as though Munroe was just some random cherry pick as some are suggesting. For Jeffries there was some unfinished business between them. By the time Munroe fought Johnson he was 20 pounds over his ideal weight and out of shape. Still lasted the full 6 rounds.